谈谈2009年上半年的全球战斗机生意情况

来源:百度文库 编辑:超级军网 时间:2024/03/29 16:12:10


上半年的卖,修,换得活动如下


总体而言,毫无疑问,战斗机市场面临困难。 经济危机不得人心,卖军火的恨不得把华尔街的恶棍炸了。


2009年上半年确认出口的多功能战机的合同价值为12.1亿美元。

比较惨的有:


毛子:

越南砍了4架SU-30MK2,同时终止了其他武器的谈判,

斯里兰卡 取消了5 架MiG-29,米格雪上加霜。

瑞典:

NND, 小国不容易。 泰国取消了采购第二批JAS-39,往后推两年。

不过MD,上半年发威,签了不少合同。 值得一看得有:

英国吃螃蟹,F-35买两,2.52亿美金,不便宜, 荷兰小弟买一架,1.2个亿,用行动表示对MD的顶。

看到他们买,以色列也手痒痒, 7月份 发了个公文,要求买25 架, 但是和MD尽在价格上面扯皮,到现在还在扯。

NND, 棒子看了眼红, 没办法送了2.5个亿, 升级升级35架35 fighters F-16C/D block-52 再说,要不干看着别人买,也不是个事啊。

总结一下:

算下来, MD到手的有6.22个亿,毛子也套牢了3.2个亿。

荷兰这个要说说的,倒卖一下,经过LM升级下2.7个亿到手,智利接盘16 架 F-16A/B

说说A3, 本来没法国什么事的,偏偏这个时候送钱给人家, 升级52架 Mirage-2000H。

法国高兴的活蹦乱跳。

不知道是经济危机还是干啥的,现在流行大耍卖, 比利时这个时候跳出来, 清偿大处理,约旦接受9

架二手货 F-16AM/BM, 看来经济危机,大家都不容易啊。 不要的就赶快卖。


没钱卖新的是吧,NND, 升级升级,改造改造, 又能用好多年。这个市场到达了85亿美金。

主要有:

The UK will complete a longstanding program of upgrade of 84 Tornado fighters for the Saudi Arabian Air Force in 2009- 2011 (the program was launched in 2005, the planned budget was $1.847 billion).

Israel will complete a long-term program of upgrade of 46 F-5E Freedom Fighter for the Brazilian Air Force. The program was started in 2005. The total value of the contract amounts to $230 million. Besides, from 2009 to 2011 Israel is going to upgrade 31 F-5E "Tiger-2" fighter aircraft for the Air Force of Thailand. The sum of the contract is $90 million.

Russia is launching the biggest - in monetary terms - program of upgrading 63 MiG-29 fighters for the Indian Air Force. The total cost of the program for 2010-2014 is estimated at $964 million. (怎么感觉比升级土耳其的216 F16还贵?)

Besides, in 2009 - 2011 Russia will upgrade 19 MiG-29 fighters of the Peruvian Air Force (the sum of the contract is 106 million US dollars).

The upgrade program of MiG-31 interceptors of Kazakhstan Air Force is going on as scheduled. At the same time Russia is involved in some smaller upgrade programs carried out with some countries.

看来经济危机为米格集团送了不少真金白银。

The USA signed $300 million contract for the upgrade of 14 F-16A/B block-15 Fighting Falcon fighters for the Air Force of Pakistan.

On request from Turkey, in 2009 - 2016 a great scale program of upgrading 216 F-16C/D Fighting Falcon fighters for the Air Force of Turkey (the sum of the contract is $635 million) will be performed.

A two-stage upgrade of 64 F/A-18С/D Hornet fighters is carried out on the basis of two contracts with Finland). The total sum of two contracts is $706 million.
On request from the Air Force of Switzerland in the course of 2009 - 2011, 33 F/A-18C/D Hornet fighters will be upgraded for the total sum of $535 million.

Turkey signed contracts on carrying out two programs of modernization. Thus, in 2009 - 2010, for the Air Force of Jordan a four- year program implying the modernization of 17 fighters F-16А/В block-15 Fighting Falcon - the program worth $87 million - will be fulfilled. And for the Air Force of Pakistan in 2009 - 2012 another program estimated at $650 million (the upgrade of 42 F-16А/В block-15 Fighting Falcon fighters) will be implemented.

MD在升级服务上面赚的多了。

France has three operating contracts to upgrade fighters. In 2010 - 2012, 51 Mirage-2000H fighters will be upgraded for the Indian Air Force - the value of contract amounts to $2.05 billion (in the middle of 2009 the contract was at the final stage of talks   and was almost ready to be signed).

法国的这个单子超级大单阿,感叹A3财力!


看看上半年定下来的全新战机交货计划:




The total value of contracts for fighter aircraft deliveries starting from 2009 and later is estimated at $40.5 billion.

NND,这么多。

EF-2000 Typhoon. In 2009 the final lot of 5 EF-2000 fighters out of 15 ordered aircraft will be delivered to Austria (the contract value is $1.7 billion). The Typhoon modification is delivered to the Austrian Air Force in terms of "tranch-1" of the German Air Force. Later on, the quantity in the composition of the German Air Force will be restored by procurement on the basis of "tranche-2".

The greatest export program implies the supply of 72 aircraft EF-200 to the Air Force of Saudi Arabia (the contract amounts to $8.86 billion). The deliveries are scheduled for 2009-2014.

石油美元容易赚啊。

JAS-39C/D Gripen. In terms of the contract with Thailand, in 2011-2012 the Air Force of this country will receive 6 aircraft (the deal amounts to $420 million including options). Besides, at the beginning of 2009, the sides agreed to transform the option into an purchase of 6 additional fighters in terms of a fixed contract. The aircraft deliveries are set for 2012 - 2013. (This summer, the supply of the second lot was said to be shifted for a minimum of two years).

Deliveries of JAS-39C/D to the Republic of South Africa in terms of $1.8 billion contract continue. Starting from2009 and up to 2012, 22 aircraft should be delivered out of total order of 26 units. (4 aircraft were supplied in 2008.).

F-16. In 2009-2030, 30 fighters F-16C/D block-52 Fighting Falcon are to be delivered to the Air Force of Greece (the contract amounts to $2 billion). Order placed by the Air Force of Morocco for supply of 24 F-16C/D block-50/52 Fighting Falcon fighters is to be completed in 2009 - 2011 (the contract amounts to $2.4 billion).   这些个小国家也跟着折腾!

In 2009 - 2011, 18 F-16С/D block-52+ Fighting Falcon fighters will be supplied to Pakistan in terms of $498 million contract.  这样下来, A3 这回招标不来假的了。

In 2011-2012, 30 F-16C/D block-50 Fighting Falcon fighters are to be delivered to Turkey in terms of $1.78 billion contract.

F-15. In accordance with $ 1 billion contract signed in 2005, 12 F-15T Strike Eagle fighters should be supplied to Air Force of Singapore during 2009 - 2010, and in terms of contract 2007 they will be followed by additional 12 F-15T Strike Eagle fighters.

Order worth $2.4 billion place by the South Korea implies the delivery of 12 F-15K Eagle in 2010-2012.  棒子比较忙啊, 买了毛子的买MD,NND厉害。

F/A-18E/F. Today, Australia is the biggest customer of F/A-18E/F fighters. Due to $3.517 billion contract 24 F/A-18E/F Super Hornet fighters are to be supplied to the Air Force of Australia during 2010-2012. 除了卖铁矿石,能不能搞点别的, 把TG的钱赚了又送给MD了。 荷兰病搞死你。



JF-17 Thunder. The only export program of a Chinese fighter is its manufacture under license in Pakistan. The total order amounts to 150 aircraft at the total value of $2.3 billion. In 2009-2014, 133 JF-17 aircraft should be produced. In terms of the said contract China has supplied initial lot of 15 accomplished aircraft (2 aircraft were manufactured under license). TG上板,可喜可贺啊。不管数量,不管价格, 就是顶一下。

MiG-29К/KUB. In 2009 the contract on the basis of the order placed for 16 aircraft by the Indian Navy (the contract amounts  to $700 million) will be completed. In the nearest future an option for supply of 29 fighters MiG-29К/KUB is expected to be transformed into a fixed order.

Su-27SKM. In 2009 - 2010, 3 Su-27SKM aircraft is to be supplied to Indonesia (the order amounts to about $150 million).  买三架? 凑个好点的数行不行?

Su-30. In compliance with the schedule, the last lot of 10 SU-30MKA out of the total order of 28 aircraft is to be supplied to Algeria in 2009 (the order is estimated at $1.5 billion). Russia anticipates a possibility to sign a contract for additional Su-30MKA.  毛子阿,这回不要得罪这个大客户了,坚决把质量做好,不能给大客户翻修货。

The program on license agreement for manufacturing 140 Su030MKI fighters launched with India is still going on. In terms of   the contract during 2009 - 2013 (most likely this program will be extended up to 2015) 98 aircraft are to be manufactured (42 are already assembled). A3, 这回组装速度还不赖嘛。 毛子造发动机的公司乐翻了。


In terms of direct supplies based on the contract of 2007 for 40 aircraft, the remaining 34 Su-30MKI aircraft will be delivered to the Indian Air Force in 2009-2010.


这就是上半年得战斗机市场基本情况。 有钱谁都会买,但是,升级大战也是好事,缝缝补补又三年嘛

上半年的卖,修,换得活动如下


总体而言,毫无疑问,战斗机市场面临困难。 经济危机不得人心,卖军火的恨不得把华尔街的恶棍炸了。


2009年上半年确认出口的多功能战机的合同价值为12.1亿美元。

比较惨的有:


毛子:

越南砍了4架SU-30MK2,同时终止了其他武器的谈判,

斯里兰卡 取消了5 架MiG-29,米格雪上加霜。

瑞典:

NND, 小国不容易。 泰国取消了采购第二批JAS-39,往后推两年。

不过MD,上半年发威,签了不少合同。 值得一看得有:

英国吃螃蟹,F-35买两,2.52亿美金,不便宜, 荷兰小弟买一架,1.2个亿,用行动表示对MD的顶。

看到他们买,以色列也手痒痒, 7月份 发了个公文,要求买25 架, 但是和MD尽在价格上面扯皮,到现在还在扯。

NND, 棒子看了眼红, 没办法送了2.5个亿, 升级升级35架35 fighters F-16C/D block-52 再说,要不干看着别人买,也不是个事啊。

总结一下:

算下来, MD到手的有6.22个亿,毛子也套牢了3.2个亿。

荷兰这个要说说的,倒卖一下,经过LM升级下2.7个亿到手,智利接盘16 架 F-16A/B

说说A3, 本来没法国什么事的,偏偏这个时候送钱给人家, 升级52架 Mirage-2000H。

法国高兴的活蹦乱跳。

不知道是经济危机还是干啥的,现在流行大耍卖, 比利时这个时候跳出来, 清偿大处理,约旦接受9

架二手货 F-16AM/BM, 看来经济危机,大家都不容易啊。 不要的就赶快卖。


没钱卖新的是吧,NND, 升级升级,改造改造, 又能用好多年。这个市场到达了85亿美金。

主要有:

The UK will complete a longstanding program of upgrade of 84 Tornado fighters for the Saudi Arabian Air Force in 2009- 2011 (the program was launched in 2005, the planned budget was $1.847 billion).

Israel will complete a long-term program of upgrade of 46 F-5E Freedom Fighter for the Brazilian Air Force. The program was started in 2005. The total value of the contract amounts to $230 million. Besides, from 2009 to 2011 Israel is going to upgrade 31 F-5E "Tiger-2" fighter aircraft for the Air Force of Thailand. The sum of the contract is $90 million.

Russia is launching the biggest - in monetary terms - program of upgrading 63 MiG-29 fighters for the Indian Air Force. The total cost of the program for 2010-2014 is estimated at $964 million. (怎么感觉比升级土耳其的216 F16还贵?)

Besides, in 2009 - 2011 Russia will upgrade 19 MiG-29 fighters of the Peruvian Air Force (the sum of the contract is 106 million US dollars).

The upgrade program of MiG-31 interceptors of Kazakhstan Air Force is going on as scheduled. At the same time Russia is involved in some smaller upgrade programs carried out with some countries.

看来经济危机为米格集团送了不少真金白银。

The USA signed $300 million contract for the upgrade of 14 F-16A/B block-15 Fighting Falcon fighters for the Air Force of Pakistan.

On request from Turkey, in 2009 - 2016 a great scale program of upgrading 216 F-16C/D Fighting Falcon fighters for the Air Force of Turkey (the sum of the contract is $635 million) will be performed.

A two-stage upgrade of 64 F/A-18С/D Hornet fighters is carried out on the basis of two contracts with Finland). The total sum of two contracts is $706 million.
On request from the Air Force of Switzerland in the course of 2009 - 2011, 33 F/A-18C/D Hornet fighters will be upgraded for the total sum of $535 million.

Turkey signed contracts on carrying out two programs of modernization. Thus, in 2009 - 2010, for the Air Force of Jordan a four- year program implying the modernization of 17 fighters F-16А/В block-15 Fighting Falcon - the program worth $87 million - will be fulfilled. And for the Air Force of Pakistan in 2009 - 2012 another program estimated at $650 million (the upgrade of 42 F-16А/В block-15 Fighting Falcon fighters) will be implemented.

MD在升级服务上面赚的多了。

France has three operating contracts to upgrade fighters. In 2010 - 2012, 51 Mirage-2000H fighters will be upgraded for the Indian Air Force - the value of contract amounts to $2.05 billion (in the middle of 2009 the contract was at the final stage of talks   and was almost ready to be signed).

法国的这个单子超级大单阿,感叹A3财力!


看看上半年定下来的全新战机交货计划:




The total value of contracts for fighter aircraft deliveries starting from 2009 and later is estimated at $40.5 billion.

NND,这么多。

EF-2000 Typhoon. In 2009 the final lot of 5 EF-2000 fighters out of 15 ordered aircraft will be delivered to Austria (the contract value is $1.7 billion). The Typhoon modification is delivered to the Austrian Air Force in terms of "tranch-1" of the German Air Force. Later on, the quantity in the composition of the German Air Force will be restored by procurement on the basis of "tranche-2".

The greatest export program implies the supply of 72 aircraft EF-200 to the Air Force of Saudi Arabia (the contract amounts to $8.86 billion). The deliveries are scheduled for 2009-2014.

石油美元容易赚啊。

JAS-39C/D Gripen. In terms of the contract with Thailand, in 2011-2012 the Air Force of this country will receive 6 aircraft (the deal amounts to $420 million including options). Besides, at the beginning of 2009, the sides agreed to transform the option into an purchase of 6 additional fighters in terms of a fixed contract. The aircraft deliveries are set for 2012 - 2013. (This summer, the supply of the second lot was said to be shifted for a minimum of two years).

Deliveries of JAS-39C/D to the Republic of South Africa in terms of $1.8 billion contract continue. Starting from2009 and up to 2012, 22 aircraft should be delivered out of total order of 26 units. (4 aircraft were supplied in 2008.).

F-16. In 2009-2030, 30 fighters F-16C/D block-52 Fighting Falcon are to be delivered to the Air Force of Greece (the contract amounts to $2 billion). Order placed by the Air Force of Morocco for supply of 24 F-16C/D block-50/52 Fighting Falcon fighters is to be completed in 2009 - 2011 (the contract amounts to $2.4 billion).   这些个小国家也跟着折腾!

In 2009 - 2011, 18 F-16С/D block-52+ Fighting Falcon fighters will be supplied to Pakistan in terms of $498 million contract.  这样下来, A3 这回招标不来假的了。

In 2011-2012, 30 F-16C/D block-50 Fighting Falcon fighters are to be delivered to Turkey in terms of $1.78 billion contract.

F-15. In accordance with $ 1 billion contract signed in 2005, 12 F-15T Strike Eagle fighters should be supplied to Air Force of Singapore during 2009 - 2010, and in terms of contract 2007 they will be followed by additional 12 F-15T Strike Eagle fighters.

Order worth $2.4 billion place by the South Korea implies the delivery of 12 F-15K Eagle in 2010-2012.  棒子比较忙啊, 买了毛子的买MD,NND厉害。

F/A-18E/F. Today, Australia is the biggest customer of F/A-18E/F fighters. Due to $3.517 billion contract 24 F/A-18E/F Super Hornet fighters are to be supplied to the Air Force of Australia during 2010-2012. 除了卖铁矿石,能不能搞点别的, 把TG的钱赚了又送给MD了。 荷兰病搞死你。



JF-17 Thunder. The only export program of a Chinese fighter is its manufacture under license in Pakistan. The total order amounts to 150 aircraft at the total value of $2.3 billion. In 2009-2014, 133 JF-17 aircraft should be produced. In terms of the said contract China has supplied initial lot of 15 accomplished aircraft (2 aircraft were manufactured under license). TG上板,可喜可贺啊。不管数量,不管价格, 就是顶一下。

MiG-29К/KUB. In 2009 the contract on the basis of the order placed for 16 aircraft by the Indian Navy (the contract amounts  to $700 million) will be completed. In the nearest future an option for supply of 29 fighters MiG-29К/KUB is expected to be transformed into a fixed order.

Su-27SKM. In 2009 - 2010, 3 Su-27SKM aircraft is to be supplied to Indonesia (the order amounts to about $150 million).  买三架? 凑个好点的数行不行?

Su-30. In compliance with the schedule, the last lot of 10 SU-30MKA out of the total order of 28 aircraft is to be supplied to Algeria in 2009 (the order is estimated at $1.5 billion). Russia anticipates a possibility to sign a contract for additional Su-30MKA.  毛子阿,这回不要得罪这个大客户了,坚决把质量做好,不能给大客户翻修货。

The program on license agreement for manufacturing 140 Su030MKI fighters launched with India is still going on. In terms of   the contract during 2009 - 2013 (most likely this program will be extended up to 2015) 98 aircraft are to be manufactured (42 are already assembled). A3, 这回组装速度还不赖嘛。 毛子造发动机的公司乐翻了。


In terms of direct supplies based on the contract of 2007 for 40 aircraft, the remaining 34 Su-30MKI aircraft will be delivered to the Indian Air Force in 2009-2010.


这就是上半年得战斗机市场基本情况。 有钱谁都会买,但是,升级大战也是好事,缝缝补补又三年嘛
顶资料党


数据列表:

2004-2013年,新多功能战机的供应列表

(根据确认的合同,更新到2009年上半年)




其中MD 618架,

毛子交货555架

中国183架


数据列表:

2004-2013年,新多功能战机的供应列表

(根据确认的合同,更新到2009年上半年)




其中MD 618架,

毛子交货555架

中国183架
2001-2008期间,多功能战机出口订单的成本评估
$13.133 billion (16.9% of the world orders portfolio). Russia developed the greatest orders portfolio for fighters export in 2006 and 2007; $3.101 and 3.065 billion correspondingly. In 2008 the orders portfolio of Russia was equal to $1.175 billion (5.7% of entire world orders portfolio).



The third place for the period from 2001 up to 2008 belongs to The UK- $12.909 billion (16.6%). The maximum orders portfolio for fighters export was formed up by The UK in 2007 - $8.86 billion (68.6% of the orders portfolio for entire 8 years period). The greatest contribution into such a great result of The UK was made by Contract with Saudi Arabia in 2007.


The fourth place for the period from 2001 - 2008 is occupied by China - $2.321 billion (3%). The greatest orders portfolio for the considered period China developed in 2008 - $1.5 billion (64.6 % of the order volume for entire 8-years period). In 2008 the orders portfolio of China was equal to 7.7% of entire volume of the world orders portfolio for the fighters export. 八年磨一单,不错。


The fifth place for the period of 2001 - 2008 is taken by Sweden - $2.04 billion (2.62% of the world orders portfolio). The greatest orders portfolio Sweden formed up during the period from 2003 and 2004, correspondingly $924 million and $775 million. In 2008 Sweden developed the orders portfolio for fighters export for entire sum of $341 million (1.65% of the world orders portfolio in 2008)

The sixth place for the period of 2001 - 2008 is taken by France - $1.1 billion (1.42% of the world orders portfolio). The greatest orders portfolio France formed up in 2005 - $519 million. The great Agreement with India to upgrade "Mirage-2000" was accounted for 2009.

The second division of multi-mission fighters for the period from 2001 up to 2008 with the orders portfolio from $1 billion up to $500 million in decreasing order incorporates Turkey ($978 million) and Israel ($552 million).

The third division of multi-mission fighters for the period from 2001 up to 2008 with the orders portfolio from $400 million up to $100 million in decreasing order incorporates: The Netherlands ($377 million), Ukraine ($326 million), Switzerland ($110 million) and Greece ($100 million).


2004-2013年

其中MD 618架,

毛子交货555架



2009-2013年

MD交付208

毛子292架



看来接下来这些个年,MD和毛子为了客户忙得不得了


同时至少从数据可以看出,无论是毛子还是MD, 从2004年开始, 整个战斗机研制生产的垂直产业系

统,各个子系统的工业企业,应该是有效运转的。

2004-2013年

其中MD 618架,

毛子交货555架



2009-2013年

MD交付208

毛子292架



看来接下来这些个年,MD和毛子为了客户忙得不得了


同时至少从数据可以看出,无论是毛子还是MD, 从2004年开始, 整个战斗机研制生产的垂直产业系

统,各个子系统的工业企业,应该是有效运转的。
好翔实的资料哦!


在其他的帖子里居然有人暗示TG Jet fighter的产能世界第一,

现在关注数据的人是越来越来少了。

感性判断超越了理性分析了。

在其他的帖子里居然有人暗示TG Jet fighter的产能世界第一,

现在关注数据的人是越来越来少了。

感性判断超越了理性分析了。
France has three operating contracts to upgrade fighters. In 2010 - 2012, 51 Mirage-2000H fighters will be upgraded for the Indian Air Force - the value of contract amounts to $2.05 billion (in the middle of 2009 the contract was at the final stage of talks   and was almost ready to be signed).

这个确定?51架幻影2000升级费用达到了20亿?不是吧,单价4000w的升级?阿三干嘛不买新的。。。

在其他的帖子里居然有人暗示TG Jet fighter的产能世界第一,

现在关注数据的人是越来越来少了。

感性判断超越了理性分析了。
JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2009-9-4 08:56


我说的军方采购量,不算为出口生产的, TG现在光战斗机一年就采购80-90架, 当然是世界第一了, 这些出口的都另算。

光满足军方订货, TG 2004-2013年之间就得生产战斗机900架左右, 还不算用来出口的,结合这表格, 如果都算上, TG在04-13年之间应该生产1100架以上的战斗机
在其他的帖子里居然有人暗示TG Jet fighter的产能世界第一,

现在关注数据的人是越来越来少了。

感性判断超越了理性分析了。
JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2009-9-4 08:56


我说的军方采购量,不算为出口生产的, TG现在光战斗机一年就采购80-90架, 当然是世界第一了, 这些出口的都另算。

光满足军方订货, TG 2004-2013年之间就得生产战斗机900架左右, 还不算用来出口的,结合这表格, 如果都算上, TG在04-13年之间应该生产1100架以上的战斗机
哪来的数据啊!请楼主暗示一二!
半个数据党飘过!
现在算是战斗机市场的黄昏吧,各国还有一点余辉。
等到F35进入现役,二手的F16及欧洲同代战斗机很快就会充斥市场,即使是毛子恐怕也会面临寒冬

现在算是战斗机市场的黄昏吧,各国还有一点余辉。
等到F35进入现役,二手的F16及欧洲同代战斗机很快就会充斥市场,即使是毛子恐怕也会面临寒冬
小人物甲 发表于 2009-9-4 09:31


F-35这种3.75代机按照现在的进度,投产应该比TG/毛子 下代早不了多少年, 何况性能还远不如真正的4代(4S标准一半都不具备,说是3.75代已经很给F-35面子了,实际应该是3.5代左右)。

至于2手飞机, 实际上2手飞机的使用成本并不低, 就跟2手车一样,采购是便宜点, 但由于设备老化,实际维修保养成本都很高,何况已经停产的东西,零配件都难找。

再考虑2手飞机也没几年寿命了, 所以综合成本其实很高,这也是为什么一些国家要把它们退役掉的原因, 发达国家都养不起的,你打算让谁养?

所以2手飞机其实没多大竞争优势,否则毛子90年代初期没钱保养的飞机几千架,最后全退役也没卖出去啊。

何况巴基斯坦空军飞官不是说了吗,FC-1比他们的F-16A/B要强, 因此2手机对FC-1基本不构成威胁。
现在算是战斗机市场的黄昏吧,各国还有一点余辉。
等到F35进入现役,二手的F16及欧洲同代战斗机很快就会充斥市场,即使是毛子恐怕也会面临寒冬
小人物甲 发表于 2009-9-4 09:31


F-35这种3.75代机按照现在的进度,投产应该比TG/毛子 下代早不了多少年, 何况性能还远不如真正的4代(4S标准一半都不具备,说是3.75代已经很给F-35面子了,实际应该是3.5代左右)。

至于2手飞机, 实际上2手飞机的使用成本并不低, 就跟2手车一样,采购是便宜点, 但由于设备老化,实际维修保养成本都很高,何况已经停产的东西,零配件都难找。

再考虑2手飞机也没几年寿命了, 所以综合成本其实很高,这也是为什么一些国家要把它们退役掉的原因, 发达国家都养不起的,你打算让谁养?

所以2手飞机其实没多大竞争优势,否则毛子90年代初期没钱保养的飞机几千架,最后全退役也没卖出去啊。

何况巴基斯坦空军飞官不是说了吗,FC-1比他们的F-16A/B要强, 因此2手机对FC-1基本不构成威胁。

F-35这种3.75代机按照现在的进度,投产应该比TG/毛子 下代早不了多少年, 何况性能还远不如真正的4代(4S标准一半都不具备,说是3.75代已经很给F-35面子了,实际应该是3.5代左右)。

至于2手飞机, 实际上2手 ...
bigKprocess 发表于 2009-9-4 09:39

各国服现役的F16A/B,你想找到一架都很困难,除了WW,我还真没想到谁还有。现在各国军队手里最多的是C/D/E/F吧,FC1能赢这些?更何况还有五花八门的BLOCK系列。
F35只不过是被“通用”拖了后腿,况且人家具有四代机的典型特征,你凭啥说他是3.75代?说实话,我很怀疑TG的四代机能不能达到F35空战型的水平,发动机这一关是绕不过去的,如果再搞成太行那样,可能F35都普及了TG四代机还在试验发动机。
再说了,谁认定的二手战斗机一定是快到使用寿命的?九成新八成新都不算?况且米国的战斗机以及发动机一向以使用寿命高著称,可能八成新的使用年限都不是毛子能比的,再加上急于淘汰的价格优势,我看不出其他战斗机出口国有什么乐观的局面
F-35这种3.75代机按照现在的进度,投产应该比TG/毛子 下代早不了多少年, 何况性能还远不如真正的4代(4S标准一半都不具备,说是3.75代已经很给F-35面子了,实际应该是3.5代左右)。

至于2手飞机, 实际上2手 ...
bigKprocess 发表于 2009-9-4 09:39

各国服现役的F16A/B,你想找到一架都很困难,除了WW,我还真没想到谁还有。现在各国军队手里最多的是C/D/E/F吧,FC1能赢这些?更何况还有五花八门的BLOCK系列。
F35只不过是被“通用”拖了后腿,况且人家具有四代机的典型特征,你凭啥说他是3.75代?说实话,我很怀疑TG的四代机能不能达到F35空战型的水平,发动机这一关是绕不过去的,如果再搞成太行那样,可能F35都普及了TG四代机还在试验发动机。
再说了,谁认定的二手战斗机一定是快到使用寿命的?九成新八成新都不算?况且米国的战斗机以及发动机一向以使用寿命高著称,可能八成新的使用年限都不是毛子能比的,再加上急于淘汰的价格优势,我看不出其他战斗机出口国有什么乐观的局面
巴基斯坦的F-16A/B,好像坟场涛出来的,现役各国中几乎唯一一个不能打主动弹的!

欧洲现役的F-16A/B,基本都经过MLU了,偷瞄、120、IRIS-T、制导炸弹,一个不少,很好卖的!
这个帖子可以加个精
二手F-16开始冲击市场了,别忘了美帝那些F-16还没开始退役呢,到时候发财市场堪忧
这个还要看政治因素
bigKprocess 发表于 2009-9-4 09:39

就像米格31,脱离了毛子的系统效能大打折扣,
而35离开MD的系统,同样要折,毕竟35是为MD未来三军联合作战准备的,别人的系统如果不完整自然要扯后腿
小人物甲 发表于 2009-9-4 09:53

FR说过,CF在设计过程中,是按照发动机仅有3代水平的情况下就要达到超巡来设计气动方案的,因此完全满足4S特性应该问题不大, F-35根本不能和这个比。

说实在的,CF这BT气动方案,大概换个好的发动机,稍微改改就可以当6代机忽悠了吧:D
这个帖子很好,应该加精!
小人物甲 发表于 2009-9-4 09:53
八九成新就被处理了?你家那么有钱是吧?现在电子水平更新换代那么快,10年早已经是另一个模样了,别来吹F35了,机动性比的上J10就很很抬举它了,你看看F35那么肥肥胖胖的身子,你还真的指望它机动能力高到哪里去?
socket 发表于 2009-9-4 14:28
F到一定程度了,在你眼里原来米国人都是傻瓜,花大价钱就为研制一个比不上歼十的战斗机;P
至于八九成新的东西会不会被低价处理,恩,没经历过社会的小屁孩是不会懂的
matri 发表于 2009-9-4 09:06


根据相关资料影射,

估计除了机壳不换,其他的都换个遍吧。要不对不起这个价格阿。

Su-35BM才多少钱一架?

我也觉得不可思议, A3究竟怎么了?
bigKprocess 发表于 2009-9-4 09:39


买二手飞机后期维护投入成本太大了。
小人物甲 发表于 2009-9-4 09:53

更新没有那么快的吧。

向二代到三代的过渡,和三代的改进, 很久的。

很长一段时间内, 三代改进版还是主力。
qnxchina 发表于 2009-9-4 12:40

正解,

战机的较量背后世界上是整个系统体系的较量, 更深层次的是国防军事理论指导思想的较量。

脱离里根据某一体系去比较, 比较勉为其难了。
bigKprocess 发表于 2009-9-4 09:18



估计J10,J11 才能被算作“MULTI-FUNCTION JETs" 吧

八爷,飞豹没有计算进去。
JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2009-9-4 16:42

我说的是战斗机,全算上, 肯定是TG军方采购量世界第一, 坦克也是如此。
bigKprocess 发表于 2009-9-4 14:03
说得真轻巧。好像某种超级气动方案是CF想怎样就能怎样的,那让CF在材料技术3代水平的情况下,设计个超级隐身的外形,再在电子技术3代水平的情况下,按照四代要求设计个雷达,总之只要嘴皮上下一碰,靠3代技术就能攒出个4代机来。
bigKprocess 发表于 2009-9-4 21:44

包括了给卖给唯一大客户的那个,八爷,飞豹,TG可以取得数量优势, 的确第一了。


在MFJ中,就很少了。
35主要优势在电子系统,如果硬说机动性把李向阳拉出来能撅死35!
很好的资料贴。

看此贴最可喜的就是从侧面了解到我国的航空工业产能确实有了很大的提高,国产各型战斗机每年百余架出厂的速度很令人兴奋,产业链的成熟度、零部件的自主化率、材料和加工工艺的进步,没有这其中的任何一项,目前的一切是无法解释的。
35的机动性不至于那么差吧
顶呀,求楼主资料出处,谢谢:)
35# hhcoin

不好意思啊。

当初应该搞个参考文献的地址就好了。
F35是3.75的话 那么俄罗斯的苏-35最多也就3.25!
yjr2wyh 发表于 2009-9-4 22:06


立此存照,等着雷鸟手里的35慢慢扇LS几位的脸吧;P
鱼鹰 发表于 2009-9-4 21:57

说的一点不轻巧, 只不过对于把美国视为自己亲爹的人来说, 比较难以理解而已

其实想象也正常,F-22的气动是80年代的气动, 比之10年前的F-117A来讲,已经可以看做天顶星了, 因此CF的气动即便大幅领先于F-22,也没什么可大惊小怪的
土鳖重4的动力能混到和F-22持平就行了。。。。。。。可惜,估计没啥希望啊。。。。。。