ACIG新考

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http://s188567700.online.de/CMS/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=37&Itemid=47


the crippled Tomcat was apparently pretty badly shot by 23mm fire from the MiG-23BN, that is that funny flat-nose radarless attack variant of the Flogger... Talk about David vs Goliath!
- the almost defenseless MiG-23BN greatly contributed to unfavorable kill/loss ratio of the Flogger family - around 37 of them were shot down on their bombing missions
- the monkey MiG-23MS achieved only one kill (Phantom, I think), at least five were shot down in return
- fighter versions MiG-23MF and the mode advanced MiG-23ML were pretty successful in their fighter role - together only 12 of them were shot down against 17-19 kills- one MiG-23ML successfully intercepted and shot down an IRIAA AH-1J Cobra helicopter. Quite impressive piloting skills considering that MiG-23 ain't exactly the type for a job like that.

12架MIG-23MF/MLD换掉了 2架F-14A+15-17架F-4/5 这个交换比似乎非常乐观了吧?

BTW,15-17架F-4/5真的就比不上4架F-14A么?http://s188567700.online.de/CMS/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=37&Itemid=47


the crippled Tomcat was apparently pretty badly shot by 23mm fire from the MiG-23BN, that is that funny flat-nose radarless attack variant of the Flogger... Talk about David vs Goliath!
- the almost defenseless MiG-23BN greatly contributed to unfavorable kill/loss ratio of the Flogger family - around 37 of them were shot down on their bombing missions
- the monkey MiG-23MS achieved only one kill (Phantom, I think), at least five were shot down in return
- fighter versions MiG-23MF and the mode advanced MiG-23ML were pretty successful in their fighter role - together only 12 of them were shot down against 17-19 kills- one MiG-23ML successfully intercepted and shot down an IRIAA AH-1J Cobra helicopter. Quite impressive piloting skills considering that MiG-23 ain't exactly the type for a job like that.

12架MIG-23MF/MLD换掉了 2架F-14A+15-17架F-4/5 这个交换比似乎非常乐观了吧?

BTW,15-17架F-4/5真的就比不上4架F-14A么?
弄个沙发来看戏,来这里看真相。
猫党们痛哭流涕啊!!!被米格-23给虐了。。。。。。
不能太小看伊拉克飞行员捏
楼主那是伊拉克的战绩
我在这贴两个伊朗的战绩
大家进去数数人头作对比就知道了
来源都是ACIG
所以不存在来源不同的争辩

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_211.shtml
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_210.shtml

用一句话推翻既有结论是十分不明智的 [:a4:]
]]
23BN后就直接是27了吧。
M(MS) MF ML才是一脉的……
原帖由 aaasssaaa 于 2009-1-30 17:34 发表
23BN后就直接是27了吧。
M(MS) MF ML才是一脉的……


伊朗那边声称的大部分都是BN,我说的是MF/ML

MS是BITCH 不提也罢
]]
宁愿用10台AL31换F14的!
原帖由 红男爵 于 2009-1-30 19:11 发表
宁愿用10台AL31换F14的!

14A的?这玩笑不是一般大……
原帖由 红男爵 于 2009-1-30 19:11 发表
宁愿用10台AL31换F14的!


F-14A的。。。。。。。;P
原帖由 erwinhans 于 2009-1-30 16:31 发表
http://s188567700.online.de/CMS/ ... id=37&Itemid=47


the crippled Tomcat was apparently pretty badly shot by 23mm fire from the MiG-23BN, that is that funny flat ...


:D :D :D :D

Note 1: During the war with Iran the authorities in Baghdad issued a total of over 70 claims for downings of IRIAF F-14s. Between 12 and 14 of these are known in the West - mainly because they were forwarded by the FBIS ("Foreign Broadcast Information Service"). Closer examination of these claims proved that only one of them can roughly be brought into connection with a loss of an Iranian F-14: this is the case of a loss of a single Tomcat near Khark Island, on 11 August 1984. This was confirmed by post-war investigation of the wreckage. All the other known Iraqi claims for downings of Iranian F-14s are posted here in order to show that ACIG.org knows about them but also that we know that they are unsubstained claims.
声称击落70架雄猫,只有一架真正确认。:D
All the other known Iraqi claims for downings of Iranian F-14s are posted here in order to show that ACIG.org knows about them but also that we know that they are unsubstained claims.
原帖由 aaasssaaa 于 2009-1-31 11:26 发表
声称击落70架雄猫,只有一架真正确认。:D


按照 ACIG上的算法 是 2+1
原帖由 erwinhans 于 2009-1-30 16:31 发表
http://s188567700.online.de/CMS/ ... id=37&Itemid=47


the crippled Tomcat was apparently pretty badly shot by 23mm fire from the MiG-23BN, that is that funny flat ...


按照这上面的说法,很多23BN在执行轰炸任务时被击落。同样的,被23MF击落的大部分F-4也是在执行轰炸任务,基本上不具备空战格斗能力。

所以说在复杂的战争环境下,比较交换比这种把戏基本没什么意义。
问题在于那个页面根本不支持下面一段话……
23MF/ML确认击落F4 2,F5 3,F14 2,被F14打掉11,被F4打掉3
原帖由 malganis 于 2009-1-31 13:56 发表
问题在于那个页面根本不支持下面一段话……
23MF/ML确认击落F4 2,F5 3,F14 2,被F14打掉11,被F4打掉3


注意不同颜色的字的区别
原帖由 erwinhans 于 2009-2-1 11:10 发表


注意不同颜色的字的区别

两伊那三页只数绿的不就对了
原帖由 malganis 于 2009-2-1 19:13 发表

两伊那三页只数绿的不就对了


绿的是双方都确认的记录。。。
原帖由 erwinhans 于 2009-2-1 19:18 发表


绿的是双方都确认的记录。。。

难道把单方宣称的算上啊,那可热闹了
刚才把那几张表整了下,结果编辑超时,现在重来一遍……
IRAF:
26Sep80        ?FS        MiG-23MF        Ah.Sabah        AAM or 23mm?        F-5E        IRIAF
15Oct80        39FS        MiG-23MS                 R-13        F-4E        IRIAF
15Oct80        39FS        MiG-23MS                 R-13        F-4E        IRIAF
16Oct80        39FS        MiG-23MS                 AAM?        F-4D        IRIAF (pilot ?, POW)
14Nov80        39FS        MiG-23MS        witheld        R-13M        F-5E        21TFW/IRIAF (Zabihi KIA)
22Nov80        39FS        MiG-23MS                 R-13        F-4D        IRIAF
28Nov80        39FS        MiG-23MS        witheld        R-13        F-4E        TFB.6/IRIAF
16Oct80        39FS        MiG-23MS                 R-13M        F-4E        TFB.6/IRIAF (Moftakhari/Koosta KIA)
4Feb81                 MiG-23                 AAM?        F-4E        TFB.6/IRIAF (Qoreishi/Ekhbari KIA)
??Dec82        23FS        MiG-23MF        O.Goben        R-23        F-5E        IRIAF (dam. & forced down)
11Aug84        63FS        MiG-23ML        1stLt.?        R-60MK        F-14A        81TFW/IRIAF (All-e-Agha KIA/Rostampour OK)
13Feb86        63FS        MiG-23ML        witheld        R-24        F-5E        TFB.2/IRIAF (Varzdar KIA)
17Jan87        63FS        MiG-23ML        witheld        R-?        F-14A        TFB.7/IRIAF (Ghanei OK/Assl-e-Davtalab KIA)
14Jun87        ?FS        MiG-23ML        witheld        AAM        F-4E        TFB.4/IRIAF (pilot Solarie KIA)
14Jun87        ?FS        MiG-23ML        witheld        AAM        F-4E        TFB.4/IRIAF (crew ?)

IRIAF:
23Sep80        F-14A        81TFS/TFB.8        ?        AIM-7E-4        MiG-23MS        39FS/IrAF
25Sep80        F-4E        TFB.3        ?        AIM-9P        MiG-23MS        39FS/IrAF
25Sep80        F-4E        TFB.6        Rassi        20mm        MiG-23MS        39FS/IrAF
2Oct80        F-14A        TFB.8        ?        AIM-9P        MiG-23MS        39FS/IrAF
29Oct80        F-14A        81TFS/TFB.8        Sedghi        AIM-54A        MiG-23MLA        IrAF (pilot Ah.Sabah, KIA)
29Oct80        F-14A        81TFS/TFB.8        Sedghi        AIM-54A        MiG-23MLA        IrAF
29Oct80        F-14A        81TFS/TFB.8        Sedghi        AIM-9P        MiG-23MLA        IrAF
29Oct80        F-14A        81TFS/TFB.8        Sedghi        AIM-9P        MiG-23MLA        IrAF
1Sep81        F-4D        306TFS/TFB.4        ?        AIM-7E-2        MiG-23MF        23FS/IrAF
21Jul82        F-14A        81TFS/TFB.8        ?        AIM-54A*        MiG-23MF        23FS/IrAF (Note 2)
21Jul82        F-14A        81TFS/TFB.8        ?        AIM-54A*        MiG-23MF        23FS/IrAF
21Jul82        F-14A        81TFS/TFB.8        ?        AIM-54A        MiG-23MF        IrAF
21Nov82        F-14A        TFB.8        Khosrodad        AIM-54A        MiG-23MF        23FS/IrAF
21Nov82        F-14A        TFB.8        Khosrodad        AIM-54A        MiG-23MF        23FS/IrAF
3Dec82        F-4E        31TFS/TFB.4        ?        forced down        MiG-23MS        84FS/IrAF
????85        F-4E        TFB.1        ?        maneuver        MiG-23ML        63FS/IrAF
12Jul86        F-14A        TFB.8        Reza ?        AIM-7E-4        MiG-23ML        63FS/IrAF
14Oct86        F-14A        81TFS/TFB.8        ?        AIM-54A        MiG-23ML        63FS/IrAF
14Jun88        F-4E        31TFW/TFB.4        Solarie        AIM-9P        MiG-23MF        23FS/IrAF