India\'s blue water dreams may have to wait

来源:百度文库 编辑:超级军网 时间:2024/04/19 07:13:07
BANGALORE - Even as the Indian Navy is making its mark projecting power in waters far beyond its shores, its ambitions seem likely to be impeded by delays in a string of big-ticket projects involving new acquisitions. Besides the delay in the delivery of a refurbished Russian aircraft carrier, the construction in India of an indigenous carrier has been hit by rough weather.

Under a deal that India signed with Russia in January 2004, the 44,570-ton Admiral Gorshkov, which is being refurbished at Russia's Shevmash shipyard, was to be ready for induction inthe Indian Navy as the Indian Naval Ship (INS) Vikramaditya by next August. But Russian engineers apparently underestimated the length of cabling required to refit the aircraft carrier and are now unable to meet the delivery deadline. It will take an additional two years for the carrier to be ready for induction.

Meanwhile, another prestigious project is running late.

India is constructing a 37,500-ton aircraft carrier at the Cochin Shipyard on its west coast. The first indigenous aircraft carrier to be made in India was to enter service in 2012. However, it now appears that the earliest it will be ready is 2015. The project is running late "on almost all fronts", according to a report in The Times of India.

The 252-meter-long carrier will have two runways, a landing strip with three arrester wires (used to decelerate and stop aircraft), and a flight deck of about a hectare. It will carry 160 officers and 1,400 sailors and accommodate 12 MiG-29Ks, eight Tejas Light Combat Aircraft, and 10 helicopters.

When ready for induction, the indigenous aircraft carrier will be a feather in India's cap. But now it is giving Indian shipbuilders and the navy sleepless nights. The project has been up against formidable problems from the beginning.

The indigenous aircraft-carrier project received the government's green light in 2003. In April 2005, the symbolic cutting of steel took place marking the formal start of the project, but it was not until 19 months later that construction actually began.

Construction has been crippled by procurement woes. There were problems procuring 20,000 tonnes of high-quality steel for the carrier until India's largest steel manufacturer, Steel Authority of India Ltd (SAIL), stepped in. Then came a delay in procuring the bulb bars.

These problems were subsequently sorted out, but new ones have cropped up since, contributing to further delays. The keel of the carrier was to be laid this October, but this has been put off for at least another year, the Times of India report said. This will push up the project cost "substantially".

"The delay in delivery has thrown India's plans into some turbulence," an officer in the navy's western command told Asia Times Online.

Since the decommissioning of India's first aircraft carrier INS Vikrant in 1997, the country has been left with just one carrier, INS Viraat. But Viraat (formerly HMS Hermes of Britain's Royal Navy), which was commissioned in May 1987, is aging. It underwent a major refit in the Cochin Shipyard from 1999 to 2001.

The refit was not just a facelift; it included upgrades to the carrier's propulsion systems, its radar suite, communications systems, and weapon systems. The result was that the aging warhorse - the 50-year old INS Viraat is the oldest aircraft carrier in commission in the world - received another lease on life for about 10 years.

India's purchase of the Admiral Gorshkov and the go-ahead for the construction of the indigenous aircraft carrier were aimed at finding replacements for INS Viraat before its decommissioning in 2010-12. The Indian Navy was hoping that INS Vikramaditya would be operational by 2009, well ahead of the Viraat's retirement.

According to this rather ambitious timetable, the Vikramaditya would join the Viraat and the two would be joined by the indigenous aircraft carrier in 2012.

"It did seem that the Indian Navy's dream of operating three aircraft carriers would be realized, albeit for a short time," the navy officer said. "With delivery schedules going haywire, that seems a bit unlikely in the near future."

The Indian Navy's force projections for the future have long envisaged the operation of three aircraft-carrier groups as essential for the protection of the country's maritime interests.

There are indications now that INS Viraat will have to soldier on for a few more years. In January, navy chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta indicated that the Viraat could remain in active service beyond 2010-12. "We are confident that she is in good condition for another seven years of service," he told the Indian Express.

The carrier's commanding officer, Captain Girish Luthra, said at that time: "The ship is in excellent condition. It is up to the Naval Headquarters to decide how long we use her, but I can say she is in top form."

Indeed, for its age INS Viraat appears to be in fighting trim. In June, it went on a goodwill voyage to several ports in Southeast Asia. Next month, it will be the star of the Indian fleet participating in the five-nation naval exercise in the Bay of Bengal.

Although naval officials are proud of INS Viraat's fitness, they are nonetheless annoyed with the perpetual delays in acquisitions.

"We are making do with a very old aircraft carrier," the naval officer said, adding that "INS Viraat is in fine condition, but only for an aircraft carrier of its age. Our ambitions cannot be realized if the navy finds itself constantly hamstrung by delays in procurement."

Meanwhile, India is looking to induct another aircraft carrier by 2017. This May, Defense Minister A K Antony indicated that this would depend on progress on construction of the indigenous carrier. The order for a third carrier, Antony said, would be placed only after construction of the indigenous vessel progresses "beyond a certain range".

It is not just delayed delivery of aircraft carriers that is annoying navy officials. The Scorpene submarine project - the acquisition of six Scorpene subs is part of India's "Project 75", which envisages the building of 24 submarines by 2025-30 - too is running late.

It took several years for India to negotiate the deal for the acquisition and building of Scorpene submarines. The Cabinet Committee for Security sat on the matter for two years before giving its assent. Finally in 2005, the deal for construction of six Scorpene subs was signed.

Under the deal, India's Mazagon Docks Ltd was to deliver one submarine a year beginning in 2012, but two years on, construction of the vessels is yet to start. Construction of a submarine takes a minimum of six years. This means that Mazagon Docks will not meet the 2012 delivery deadline.

What is worrying naval officials is that India's fleet of 16 diesel-electric submarines (10 Russian Kilo-class ships, four German HDWs and two Foxtrots) is aging and several are due for retirement. "By 2012 we will be left with only nine submarines, with more retirements to follow," the naval officer said.

In 2005, India's then naval chief, Admiral Arun Prakash, warned that India would have to begin building new submarines immediately to be able to replace the ones being retired. Several of India's neighbors were acquiring subs and "India seemed to be the odd man out", he said. Two years on, his warning has not been heeded.

Indian naval officials blame the political establishment and the bureaucracy for crippling the navy's modernization program. Indeed, almost all defense purchases have been mired in scandal. Contracts negotiated by one government have been renegotiated by the next, ostensibly to get a better deal but really for kickbacks. The officials have said acquisitions are being delayed with deals coming under the scanner for corruption.

The navy cannot, however, absolve itself of blame. Senior officers and their kin have been found leaking information and/or receiving bribes in connection with defense procurements. This has been the case with the Scorpene deal, for instance.

India's navy has great ambitions and plans to achieve them, but the hardware to do so is lacking. It seems a classic case of the spirit being strong but the flesh weak.

Sudha Ramachandran is an independent journalist/researcher based in Bangalore.BANGALORE - Even as the Indian Navy is making its mark projecting power in waters far beyond its shores, its ambitions seem likely to be impeded by delays in a string of big-ticket projects involving new acquisitions. Besides the delay in the delivery of a refurbished Russian aircraft carrier, the construction in India of an indigenous carrier has been hit by rough weather.

Under a deal that India signed with Russia in January 2004, the 44,570-ton Admiral Gorshkov, which is being refurbished at Russia's Shevmash shipyard, was to be ready for induction inthe Indian Navy as the Indian Naval Ship (INS) Vikramaditya by next August. But Russian engineers apparently underestimated the length of cabling required to refit the aircraft carrier and are now unable to meet the delivery deadline. It will take an additional two years for the carrier to be ready for induction.

Meanwhile, another prestigious project is running late.

India is constructing a 37,500-ton aircraft carrier at the Cochin Shipyard on its west coast. The first indigenous aircraft carrier to be made in India was to enter service in 2012. However, it now appears that the earliest it will be ready is 2015. The project is running late "on almost all fronts", according to a report in The Times of India.

The 252-meter-long carrier will have two runways, a landing strip with three arrester wires (used to decelerate and stop aircraft), and a flight deck of about a hectare. It will carry 160 officers and 1,400 sailors and accommodate 12 MiG-29Ks, eight Tejas Light Combat Aircraft, and 10 helicopters.

When ready for induction, the indigenous aircraft carrier will be a feather in India's cap. But now it is giving Indian shipbuilders and the navy sleepless nights. The project has been up against formidable problems from the beginning.

The indigenous aircraft-carrier project received the government's green light in 2003. In April 2005, the symbolic cutting of steel took place marking the formal start of the project, but it was not until 19 months later that construction actually began.

Construction has been crippled by procurement woes. There were problems procuring 20,000 tonnes of high-quality steel for the carrier until India's largest steel manufacturer, Steel Authority of India Ltd (SAIL), stepped in. Then came a delay in procuring the bulb bars.

These problems were subsequently sorted out, but new ones have cropped up since, contributing to further delays. The keel of the carrier was to be laid this October, but this has been put off for at least another year, the Times of India report said. This will push up the project cost "substantially".

"The delay in delivery has thrown India's plans into some turbulence," an officer in the navy's western command told Asia Times Online.

Since the decommissioning of India's first aircraft carrier INS Vikrant in 1997, the country has been left with just one carrier, INS Viraat. But Viraat (formerly HMS Hermes of Britain's Royal Navy), which was commissioned in May 1987, is aging. It underwent a major refit in the Cochin Shipyard from 1999 to 2001.

The refit was not just a facelift; it included upgrades to the carrier's propulsion systems, its radar suite, communications systems, and weapon systems. The result was that the aging warhorse - the 50-year old INS Viraat is the oldest aircraft carrier in commission in the world - received another lease on life for about 10 years.

India's purchase of the Admiral Gorshkov and the go-ahead for the construction of the indigenous aircraft carrier were aimed at finding replacements for INS Viraat before its decommissioning in 2010-12. The Indian Navy was hoping that INS Vikramaditya would be operational by 2009, well ahead of the Viraat's retirement.

According to this rather ambitious timetable, the Vikramaditya would join the Viraat and the two would be joined by the indigenous aircraft carrier in 2012.

"It did seem that the Indian Navy's dream of operating three aircraft carriers would be realized, albeit for a short time," the navy officer said. "With delivery schedules going haywire, that seems a bit unlikely in the near future."

The Indian Navy's force projections for the future have long envisaged the operation of three aircraft-carrier groups as essential for the protection of the country's maritime interests.

There are indications now that INS Viraat will have to soldier on for a few more years. In January, navy chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta indicated that the Viraat could remain in active service beyond 2010-12. "We are confident that she is in good condition for another seven years of service," he told the Indian Express.

The carrier's commanding officer, Captain Girish Luthra, said at that time: "The ship is in excellent condition. It is up to the Naval Headquarters to decide how long we use her, but I can say she is in top form."

Indeed, for its age INS Viraat appears to be in fighting trim. In June, it went on a goodwill voyage to several ports in Southeast Asia. Next month, it will be the star of the Indian fleet participating in the five-nation naval exercise in the Bay of Bengal.

Although naval officials are proud of INS Viraat's fitness, they are nonetheless annoyed with the perpetual delays in acquisitions.

"We are making do with a very old aircraft carrier," the naval officer said, adding that "INS Viraat is in fine condition, but only for an aircraft carrier of its age. Our ambitions cannot be realized if the navy finds itself constantly hamstrung by delays in procurement."

Meanwhile, India is looking to induct another aircraft carrier by 2017. This May, Defense Minister A K Antony indicated that this would depend on progress on construction of the indigenous carrier. The order for a third carrier, Antony said, would be placed only after construction of the indigenous vessel progresses "beyond a certain range".

It is not just delayed delivery of aircraft carriers that is annoying navy officials. The Scorpene submarine project - the acquisition of six Scorpene subs is part of India's "Project 75", which envisages the building of 24 submarines by 2025-30 - too is running late.

It took several years for India to negotiate the deal for the acquisition and building of Scorpene submarines. The Cabinet Committee for Security sat on the matter for two years before giving its assent. Finally in 2005, the deal for construction of six Scorpene subs was signed.

Under the deal, India's Mazagon Docks Ltd was to deliver one submarine a year beginning in 2012, but two years on, construction of the vessels is yet to start. Construction of a submarine takes a minimum of six years. This means that Mazagon Docks will not meet the 2012 delivery deadline.

What is worrying naval officials is that India's fleet of 16 diesel-electric submarines (10 Russian Kilo-class ships, four German HDWs and two Foxtrots) is aging and several are due for retirement. "By 2012 we will be left with only nine submarines, with more retirements to follow," the naval officer said.

In 2005, India's then naval chief, Admiral Arun Prakash, warned that India would have to begin building new submarines immediately to be able to replace the ones being retired. Several of India's neighbors were acquiring subs and "India seemed to be the odd man out", he said. Two years on, his warning has not been heeded.

Indian naval officials blame the political establishment and the bureaucracy for crippling the navy's modernization program. Indeed, almost all defense purchases have been mired in scandal. Contracts negotiated by one government have been renegotiated by the next, ostensibly to get a better deal but really for kickbacks. The officials have said acquisitions are being delayed with deals coming under the scanner for corruption.

The navy cannot, however, absolve itself of blame. Senior officers and their kin have been found leaking information and/or receiving bribes in connection with defense procurements. This has been the case with the Scorpene deal, for instance.

India's navy has great ambitions and plans to achieve them, but the hardware to do so is lacking. It seems a classic case of the spirit being strong but the flesh weak.

Sudha Ramachandran is an independent journalist/researcher based in Bangalore.
伊拉克大总统兼伊拉克武装力量最高总司令兼伊拉克复国运动精神领袖兼伊拉克驻超大特派员,萨达姆·侯赛因友情翻译  :D :D :D


印度的蓝水梦想可能要等待


班加罗尔甚至作为印度海军正在庆祝其投射力量的水域,远远超出其特长,其雄心似乎可能受到阻碍,延误了一系列大宗项目涉及新的收购.此外,延误交付一个整修俄罗斯的航空母舰,建造印度的一个土著承运人已经遭到粗糙的天气.

根据该协议,印度与苏联签署, 2004年1月44,570吨戈尔什科夫正在翻新,在俄罗斯的shevmash造船厂,可以随时感应6600印度海军印度海军舰艇(移民局)技术转让明年八月.但俄罗斯工程师显然低估长度电缆需整修航空母舰现无法满足交货期限.它将会采取额外两年为承运人可以随时感应.

与此同时,另一项目是晚点了.

印度正在建造37500吨级航母在科钦造船厂美国西海岸.首位土著航母将在印度进入服役到2012年.不过,现在看来,最早将在2015年.该项目运行后, "几乎所有的战线" ,据报道,在印度时报.

252米长的载体,将有两条跑道,一条飞机跑道,与三线避雷器(用于减速和停止飞机) ,并在飞行甲板面积约一公顷.它将携带160名军官和1400名水兵和容纳12架米格- 29ks , 8 -78轻型战斗机, 10架直升机.

当准备上岗,原航空母舰将羽毛在印度的上限.但现在是给印度的造船和海军的不眠之夜.该项目已对严峻问题,从一开始的.

原航母项目得到政府的绿灯, 2003年. 2005年4月,象征切割钢板发生标识正式开工,但直到19个月后,实际施工开始.

建设一直受制于采购困境.有问题,采购20,000吨优质钢为载体,直到印度最大的钢铁制造商,印度钢铁管理局有限公司(暂定)介入,后来延迟采购灯泡酒吧.

这些问题,后来整理出来,但新出现以来,有助于进一步拖延.龙骨承运人将奠定今年十月,但这已被推迟至少一年,印度时报报道说.这将抬高工程造价的"重大" .

"迟延交付渔翁印度计划到1.9219 , "一名官员在海军西部军区司令告诉亚洲时报在线.

自退役的印度第一航母vikrant移民局在1997年,该国已与左只是一个载体,外交家.但近些年来(原赫尔梅斯hms的英国的皇家海军) ,其中委托,在1987年5月,正在老化.它进行了重大改装,在印度科钦造船厂,从1999年至2001年.

改装不只是改版;它包括升级承运人的推进系统,其雷达套件,通信系统和武器系统.其结果是严重老化战马- 50岁的马六甲海峡是最古老的航空母舰委员会,在全世界大受欢迎的另一个生机,为10年左右.

印度购进的戈尔什科夫和弃城建设原航母旨在找到替代马六甲海峡之前关闭其在2010-2012年.印度海军希望移民局排水量将运行到2009年,远远超过近些年来的退休生活.

根据这项雄心勃勃的时间表,排水量将加入航空母舰和两将加入由土著航空母舰,在2012年结束.

"它似乎是印海军的梦想,经营3艘航空母舰将实现,尽管在短时间内, "海军军官说. "交货时间表的命运,似乎有点不大可能在不久的将来"

印度海军的力量对未来的预测早已设想运作三个航母群体的,对于保护我国的海洋权益.

目前有迹象显示保卫马六甲海峡将有士兵为多几年. 1月,海军总司令海军上将alok梅赫塔表示,近些年来可以留在现役2010-2012年以后. "我们有信心,她的状态很好,又经过7年的服务, "他告诉印度快报.

承运人的指挥军官,上尉girish luthra ,当时说: "该船是在良好的条件.这是向海军总部决定多久,我们用她,但我可以说,她是在最佳状态. "

事实上,其年龄护卫舰似乎是在争取装饰.今年6月,它打出了一个善意的航程几个港口在东南亚.下个月,将主演印度舰队参加五国海军演习,在孟加拉湾.

虽然海军官员感到自豪,马六甲海峡的健身,但它们恼火长期拖延收购.

"我们正在做一个很旧的航空母舰" ,海军军官补充说: "马六甲海峡是优良条件,但只有一艘航空母舰,它的年龄.我们的抱负也无法实现,如果海军所处不断大刀延迟采购. "

与此同时,印度正在寻求另一种感应航空母舰, 2017年.今年5月,国防部长钾梁锦松表示,这将取决于进度施工,原载体.命令第三承运人,梁锦松表示,将只放在施工后,原船进展"超过了一定的距离" .

它不只是延迟交货的航空母舰是困扰海军官员.天蝎星潜艇计划购买6艘潜艇潜艇是印度的一部分的" 75工程" ,其中设想建立24个潜舰2025-30 -也是晚点.

它花了好几年的印度谈判协议,用于购置和建造潜艇.内阁安全委员会就坐在事项为两年之前给予首肯.终于在2005年,该协议建造6艘潜艇潜艇签署.

根据该协议,印度的mazagon船坞有限公司交付一艘潜艇去年开始到2012年,但两年后,施工船尚未开始.建造潜艇需至少六年.这意味着mazagon船坞将无法满足2012年交付期限.

令人担忧的海军官员表示,印度海军16型柴电潜艇( 10俄罗斯基洛级舰, 4艘德国hdws两foxtrots )老化及几位即将退休. "到2012年我们将只剩下九名潜艇,更多退休人员跟随, "海军军官说.

2005年,印度当时的海军参谋长,海军上将航空母舰警告说,印度已经开始建造新的潜艇,马上可以来更换退役的.几个印度的邻国获得的潜艇和"印度似乎是奇男子" ,他说.两年后,他的警告没有被理会.

印度海军官员说,建立政治和官僚作风严重影响海军的现代化建设.事实上,几乎所有国防采购已身陷丑闻.合同谈判由一个政府已重新由下,表面上是要得到较好解决,但真的是为回扣.该官员表示,收购正在延迟交易与未来下扫描器腐败现象.

海军,但无法开脱自己的责任.高级官员和他们的亲属已经发现漏水信息和/或收受贿赂,涉嫌与国防采购.这已是如此天蝎处理,例如.

印度海军拥有雄心的计划,以实现它们,但硬件缺乏这样做的.似乎是一个典型的例子,精神受到强烈的,但肉软弱.

sudha ramachandran是一个独立记者/研究员设在班加罗尔.
哈哈, 这么快翻译都出来了
发个洋文就是技术专题?真当老大们看不懂啊;funk
比茅坑800要强一点吧
Google·侯赛因友情翻译

;P ;P ;P
就看明白一个问题,印度A3离开了毛子啥都玩不转,印度的工业基础真可怜..
如果这样搭配,中国不强都不行!!
国家 主席:李世民
军委 主席:成吉思汗
军委副主席:毛泽东
人大委员长:孙中山
国务院总理:诸葛亮
外交 部长:周恩来
外交部发言人:宋美龄
国防 部长:曹操
教育 部长:孔子
卫生 部长:华佗
环保总局局长:老子
农业 部长:贾思勰
水利 部长:大禹
建设 部长:秦始皇
地质 部长:张衡
公安 部长:展昭
国土资源部长:徐霞客
发展与改革委员会主任:商鞅
最高人民法院院长:包拯
国家禁 毒署署长:林则徐
妇联 主任:武则天
新闻出版署署长:纪晓岚
后勤 部长:李连英
中东特使:张骞
台湾事务办公厅:郑成功
海关总署:郑和
文化部长:唐伯虎
拆迁办主任:孟姜女
计生委主任:唐僧
医务 处长:李时珍
航空航天部部长:嫦娥
国家跳水队队长:屈原
拆迁办主任:孟姜女太大材小用了,  还是放在第二炮部队,做一个战略武器来用,
原帖由 saoguo 于 2007-8-21 11:16 发表
拆迁办主任:孟姜女太大材小用了,  还是放在第二炮部队,做一个战略武器来用,

拆迁办主任????汗一个,是不是孟MM去了一哭人家房子都倒了,就不用机器去拆迁.省时省力啊:L ;P
放二炮???难道让孟MM空投到米国~然后在米国上空一哭~~帝国大厦~~五角大楼,白宫~~都塌了.....这个貌似比拉灯大叔的飞机来的狠~~~
第一,这帖和技术基本没啥关系,第二,8楼的可以算纯灌水了,第三,强烈谴责Googl翻译!
军委 主席:成吉思汗
===========
太丢人了,怎么把他算作中国人?
八楼少了一条: 中国最宝保长 : 八楼!
原帖由 ryanzhen 于 2007-8-21 13:16 发表
军委 主席:成吉思汗
===========
太丢人了,怎么把他算作中国人?

内蒙古的蒙古人也不能算中国人
我讨厌少数民族
原帖由 usa9004 于 2007-8-21 13:19 发表

内蒙古的蒙古人也不能算中国人
我讨厌少数民族


原帖由 ryanzhen 于 2007-8-21 13:16 发表
军委 主席:成吉思汗
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太丢人了,怎么把他算作中国人?



你们两个垃圾滚远点
原帖由 usa9004 于 2007-8-21 13:19 发表

内蒙古的蒙古人也不能算中国人
我讨厌少数民族

那你还是去棒子国吧
朝鲜人我也不喜欢
少数民族我都不喜欢
中国人就应当是汉族人
原帖由 happywar 于 2007-8-21 13:33 发表






你们两个垃圾滚远点

你才是垃圾!你有不同的意见可以说,骂人算什么货色!
超大上骂人的多了去,也少不了你一个垃圾,你还往你凑!
哈哈,第一次骂人
:D :D
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原帖由 happywar 于 2007-8-21 13:56 发表


你说那种话不就是想要这个效果么。
没人看见或者反驳你那恶心的充满种族主义思维的发言,你就会感到失望的
我说你你应该感到高兴。你应该感谢我。

你才是垃圾!你有不同的意见可以说,骂人算什么货色!
超大上骂人的多了去,也少不了你一个垃圾,你还往你凑!
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被扣成平民了就弄马甲……
拿民族团结乱说事的,不如直接封!
usa9005你到底是什么人?
中国人? 名字叫usa干什么?还连续一天注册2马甲,我看你就是故意来捣乱的。
USA是什么意思?我看你是U SB吧
usa9005
你y就喜欢做个美国人然后再对中国人说些垃圾观点。
看来你起个usa的名号也做不成美国人,然后心里越发自卑,
自恋,然后跑到CD来,不喜欢这个民族,不喜欢那个民族,满足你那变态的心理。
OK ,锁前留
原帖由 happywar 于 2007-8-21 14:13 发表
usa9005你到底是什么人?
中国人? 名字叫usa干什么?还连续一天注册2马甲,我看你就是故意来捣乱的。
USA是什么意思?我看你是U SB吧

你用happywar是什么意思,英国人? 还连续一天注册3马甲,我看你就是故意来捣乱的。
happywar是什么意思?我看你是idiot吧
封帖吧,都涉及民族问题了
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原帖由 usa9006 于 2007-8-21 14:20 发表

你用happywar是什么意思,英国人? 还连续一天注册3马甲,我看你就是故意来捣乱的。
happywar是什么意思?我看你是idiot吧


对阿,我就懂2个单词,比较简单,就这么写了
不想你,没作成洋人就在这里说些恶心的话。
支持LS的精神,希望到此为止,不要理他
另外,我只有一个马甲叫:happywar的马甲
我从来都是一个马甲usaxxxx
从舰船的usa8088到现在
另外我是新疆人,你们都鄙视那里的人吗
原帖由 usa9006 于 2007-8-21 14:34 发表
我从来都是一个马甲usaxxxx
从舰船的usa8088到现在
另外我是新疆人,你们都鄙视那里的人吗



我说你就是来捣乱的嘛
不过你下套的本领差了点
不能怪你,是你自己天资不行
我真的不是来捣乱的
只是咱们政见不同而已啊
你坚持你的
我坚持我的
没有相互攻击的必要
:handshake :handshake
如果我因为开骂usa9005使得则帖子被封
这里给楼主提前到个歉
原帖由 usa9006 于 2007-8-21 14:34 发表
我从来都是一个马甲usaxxxx
从舰船的usa8088到现在
另外我是新疆人,你们都鄙视那里的人吗

看看~~ 完全是来捣乱的,
你是新疆老伯家养的猪,满意了吧~ (哦对了,新疆人不吃猪肉!那还是羊吧,说不定还可以出口美国哦;P ;P )
原帖由 usa9006 于 2007-8-21 14:52 发表
我真的不是来捣乱的
只是咱们政见不同而已啊
你坚持你的
我坚持我的
没有相互攻击的必要
:handshake :handshake


我不和种族主义者为伍;P ;P
原帖由 usa9006 于 2007-8-21 14:52 发表
我真的不是来捣乱的
只是咱们政见不同而已啊
你坚持你的
我坚持我的
没有相互攻击的必要
:handshake :handshake

;P ;P