超级军网（综合外电）澳洲在野党等指控澳洲政府实质上已经选择日 ...
来源：百度文库 编辑：超级军网 时间：2024/04/20 15:57:31
目前澳洲联邦政府的标准说法都是「目前尚没有决定具体方案（潜艇在澳洲或在国外造）」。
这篇报导说澳洲ASC厂「不是唯一选择」（not the only option），但实质上看澳洲潜艇案的走向，"only"这个字去掉恐怕对ASC更贴切....
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news ... i5yv7-1227378628564
ADELAIDE-BASED shipbuilder ASC is not the only option for building the Future Submarines, the Defence Department has revealed.
TORY SHEPHERD POLITICAL EDITOR
The Advertiser
June 02, 2015 10:46AM
澳洲国防部高层说ASC现有的流程不一定适合未来澳洲新潜艇的建造工作
Defence chiefs told Estimates that though ASC has the pre-eminent workforce now, it might not be right for a newly designed submarine.
他们也承认澳洲政府可以直接修改现在的竞争性评估程序（competitive evaluation process ，CEP）的结果，挑选一个不同的国际伙伴
They also conceded the Government could override the results of the competitive evaluation process and pick a different international partner.
甚至估计价值100亿澳币的未来护卫舰计画（SEA 5000）都可能在国外建造，而不是在本土ASC
Estimates also heard that the $10 billion Future Frigates could be built offshore rather than in SA and that there are delays affecting the $10 billion LAND 400 project — which SA is competing against Victoria to win.
澳洲造舰产业对于自身在未来的澳洲政府主要计画的地位感到忧心，澳洲联邦政府今年底公布的白皮书将会揭晓
The shipbuilding industry is concerned about the uncertainty over major projects, while the Government has promised its Defence White Paper, due by the end of the year, will provide many of the answers.
澳洲造舰业界与许多专家早就呼吁持续自主造军舰/潜艇的产业来阻止工作流失，而且政府过去曾承诺相关工作将以阿德莱德的造舰产业为中心；然而，目前没有任何保证ASC可以继续以现状维持（照去年底的消息，
自由党政府已经打算拆散这个当初为造柯林斯而成立的国营造舰企业）
The industry and many experts have called for a continuous build of ships and submarines to stop job losses, and the Government has promised what work there is will be “centred on” Adelaide. However, there is no guarantee ASC will exist in its current form or that more work won’t go interstate.
澳洲政府对ASC执行的防空驱逐舰计画（Air Warfare Destroyer，霍巴特级）早已有大量批评
Government MPs have been highly critical of ASC’s performance on the Air Warfare Destroyer.
有意思的来了
国防团对中心主任Chris Burns表示如果日本被选为国际合作伙伴，西澳将有更多的工作机会，因为日本潜艇寿命较短，南澳会获得更多的翻修工作量。
（日本潜艇之前只服役不超过18年（战备16年，一部份多两年当练习潜艇），近日就算要扩充到22艘，每艘役期延长6年，不知道一开始结构设计是否就没打算使用太久，或许日本用强度较高的钢板是为了减轻结构重量，但缩短使用寿命）
Defence Teaming Centre chief Chris Burns has said if Japan is chosen as the international partner, Western Australia was likely to get more of the work because Japanese submarines have a shorter lifespan and the main work for SA is in major overhauls.
David Gould, Defence’s submarine chief, said that within Australia, ASC was “not the only option … by any means”.
澳洲潜艇产业主管David Gould表示ASC不是「唯一选择」（呵呵实际上应该是not an option），ASC是澳洲境内唯一有能力组装潜艇的地方，而且是否适合组装新设计的潜艇还是个问题
“I would agree that because the facilities that exist in SA at the ASC site, that the infrastructure and workforce is the only current workforce in Australia that could assemble the submarine — whether it be the right place to assemble a new design submarine is up for question,” he said.
“That does not mean that the entity we call ASC today is the right entity to do it.”
澳洲工对党发言人Stephen Conroy依照联邦信息法案对高层提出建言，深植本土工作机会才会将国家战略利益最大化
Opposition defence spokesman Stephen Conroy pointed to ministerial advice issued under Freedom of Information laws that said maximising local work would also maximise the nation’s sovereignty.
南澳独立上议员尼克·克塞诺丰（Nick Xenophon）举例澳洲政府过去如何修改竞争性评估程序的结果，把原本给德国人的合同交给美国人（就是先前更换柯林斯的战斗系统的案子，评估程序本身是德国胜出，最后却还是跟美国合作）
Separately, SA Independent Senator Nick Xenophon brought up an example of where the Government overrode the results of a competitive evaluation process to deliver a contract to the US instead of Germany.
国防部秘书Dennis Richardson表示这种指控只是基于假设
Defence Department secretary Dennis Richardson said that was “hypothetical”.
尼克·克塞诺丰表示，基于这个（过去的历史），澳洲潜艇计画的结果将完全由船长来决定（就是首相托尼.艾伯特）
“This confirms that at the end of the day where the Future Submarines will be built will be a Captain’s pick,” Senator Xenophon said.
澳洲工对党发言人Stephen Conroy批评现在所谓「竞争性评估程序」，实际上有明显证据根本就在「船长的摇杆」控制之下
Senator Conroy grilled the public servants on the competitive evaluation process and said there was “overwhelming evidence” it was a “Captain’s pick”.
已有大量外界批评，认为澳洲政府已经内定日本为获胜者。
国防部长凯文.安德鲁在6月初正与高官访问日本神户三菱重工造船厂等地，先前他们造访德国与法国
There are broad concerns among the Government’s critics that Japan will be given a leg up to win the contract. Defence Minister Kevin Andrews is in Japan meeting with his counterpart there, having already visited German and France.目前澳洲联邦政府的标准说法都是「目前尚没有决定具体方案（潜艇在澳洲或在国外造）」。
这篇报导说澳洲ASC厂「不是唯一选择」（not the only option），但实质上看澳洲潜艇案的走向，"only"这个字去掉恐怕对ASC更贴切....
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news ... i5yv7-1227378628564
ADELAIDE-BASED shipbuilder ASC is not the only option for building the Future Submarines, the Defence Department has revealed.
TORY SHEPHERD POLITICAL EDITOR
The Advertiser
June 02, 2015 10:46AM
澳洲国防部高层说ASC现有的流程不一定适合未来澳洲新潜艇的建造工作
Defence chiefs told Estimates that though ASC has the pre-eminent workforce now, it might not be right for a newly designed submarine.
他们也承认澳洲政府可以直接修改现在的竞争性评估程序（competitive evaluation process ，CEP）的结果，挑选一个不同的国际伙伴
They also conceded the Government could override the results of the competitive evaluation process and pick a different international partner.
甚至估计价值100亿澳币的未来护卫舰计画（SEA 5000）都可能在国外建造，而不是在本土ASC
Estimates also heard that the $10 billion Future Frigates could be built offshore rather than in SA and that there are delays affecting the $10 billion LAND 400 project — which SA is competing against Victoria to win.
澳洲造舰产业对于自身在未来的澳洲政府主要计画的地位感到忧心，澳洲联邦政府今年底公布的白皮书将会揭晓
The shipbuilding industry is concerned about the uncertainty over major projects, while the Government has promised its Defence White Paper, due by the end of the year, will provide many of the answers.
澳洲造舰业界与许多专家早就呼吁持续自主造军舰/潜艇的产业来阻止工作流失，而且政府过去曾承诺相关工作将以阿德莱德的造舰产业为中心；然而，目前没有任何保证ASC可以继续以现状维持（照去年底的消息，
自由党政府已经打算拆散这个当初为造柯林斯而成立的国营造舰企业）
The industry and many experts have called for a continuous build of ships and submarines to stop job losses, and the Government has promised what work there is will be “centred on” Adelaide. However, there is no guarantee ASC will exist in its current form or that more work won’t go interstate.
澳洲政府对ASC执行的防空驱逐舰计画（Air Warfare Destroyer，霍巴特级）早已有大量批评
Government MPs have been highly critical of ASC’s performance on the Air Warfare Destroyer.
有意思的来了
国防团对中心主任Chris Burns表示如果日本被选为国际合作伙伴，西澳将有更多的工作机会，因为日本潜艇寿命较短，南澳会获得更多的翻修工作量。
（日本潜艇之前只服役不超过18年（战备16年，一部份多两年当练习潜艇），近日就算要扩充到22艘，每艘役期延长6年，不知道一开始结构设计是否就没打算使用太久，或许日本用强度较高的钢板是为了减轻结构重量，但缩短使用寿命）
Defence Teaming Centre chief Chris Burns has said if Japan is chosen as the international partner, Western Australia was likely to get more of the work because Japanese submarines have a shorter lifespan and the main work for SA is in major overhauls.
David Gould, Defence’s submarine chief, said that within Australia, ASC was “not the only option … by any means”.
澳洲潜艇产业主管David Gould表示ASC不是「唯一选择」（呵呵实际上应该是not an option），ASC是澳洲境内唯一有能力组装潜艇的地方，而且是否适合组装新设计的潜艇还是个问题
“I would agree that because the facilities that exist in SA at the ASC site, that the infrastructure and workforce is the only current workforce in Australia that could assemble the submarine — whether it be the right place to assemble a new design submarine is up for question,” he said.
“That does not mean that the entity we call ASC today is the right entity to do it.”
澳洲工对党发言人Stephen Conroy依照联邦信息法案对高层提出建言，深植本土工作机会才会将国家战略利益最大化
Opposition defence spokesman Stephen Conroy pointed to ministerial advice issued under Freedom of Information laws that said maximising local work would also maximise the nation’s sovereignty.
南澳独立上议员尼克·克塞诺丰（Nick Xenophon）举例澳洲政府过去如何修改竞争性评估程序的结果，把原本给德国人的合同交给美国人（就是先前更换柯林斯的战斗系统的案子，评估程序本身是德国胜出，最后却还是跟美国合作）
Separately, SA Independent Senator Nick Xenophon brought up an example of where the Government overrode the results of a competitive evaluation process to deliver a contract to the US instead of Germany.
国防部秘书Dennis Richardson表示这种指控只是基于假设
Defence Department secretary Dennis Richardson said that was “hypothetical”.
尼克·克塞诺丰表示，基于这个（过去的历史），澳洲潜艇计画的结果将完全由船长来决定（就是首相托尼.艾伯特）
“This confirms that at the end of the day where the Future Submarines will be built will be a Captain’s pick,” Senator Xenophon said.
澳洲工对党发言人Stephen Conroy批评现在所谓「竞争性评估程序」，实际上有明显证据根本就在「船长的摇杆」控制之下
Senator Conroy grilled the public servants on the competitive evaluation process and said there was “overwhelming evidence” it was a “Captain’s pick”.
已有大量外界批评，认为澳洲政府已经内定日本为获胜者。
国防部长凯文.安德鲁在6月初正与高官访问日本神户三菱重工造船厂等地，先前他们造访德国与法国
There are broad concerns among the Government’s critics that Japan will be given a leg up to win the contract. Defence Minister Kevin Andrews is in Japan meeting with his counterpart there, having already visited German and France.
这篇报导说澳洲ASC厂「不是唯一选择」（not the only option），但实质上看澳洲潜艇案的走向，"only"这个字去掉恐怕对ASC更贴切....
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news ... i5yv7-1227378628564
ADELAIDE-BASED shipbuilder ASC is not the only option for building the Future Submarines, the Defence Department has revealed.
TORY SHEPHERD POLITICAL EDITOR
The Advertiser
June 02, 2015 10:46AM
澳洲国防部高层说ASC现有的流程不一定适合未来澳洲新潜艇的建造工作
Defence chiefs told Estimates that though ASC has the pre-eminent workforce now, it might not be right for a newly designed submarine.
他们也承认澳洲政府可以直接修改现在的竞争性评估程序（competitive evaluation process ，CEP）的结果，挑选一个不同的国际伙伴
They also conceded the Government could override the results of the competitive evaluation process and pick a different international partner.
甚至估计价值100亿澳币的未来护卫舰计画（SEA 5000）都可能在国外建造，而不是在本土ASC
Estimates also heard that the $10 billion Future Frigates could be built offshore rather than in SA and that there are delays affecting the $10 billion LAND 400 project — which SA is competing against Victoria to win.
澳洲造舰产业对于自身在未来的澳洲政府主要计画的地位感到忧心，澳洲联邦政府今年底公布的白皮书将会揭晓
The shipbuilding industry is concerned about the uncertainty over major projects, while the Government has promised its Defence White Paper, due by the end of the year, will provide many of the answers.
澳洲造舰业界与许多专家早就呼吁持续自主造军舰/潜艇的产业来阻止工作流失，而且政府过去曾承诺相关工作将以阿德莱德的造舰产业为中心；然而，目前没有任何保证ASC可以继续以现状维持（照去年底的消息，
自由党政府已经打算拆散这个当初为造柯林斯而成立的国营造舰企业）
The industry and many experts have called for a continuous build of ships and submarines to stop job losses, and the Government has promised what work there is will be “centred on” Adelaide. However, there is no guarantee ASC will exist in its current form or that more work won’t go interstate.
澳洲政府对ASC执行的防空驱逐舰计画（Air Warfare Destroyer，霍巴特级）早已有大量批评
Government MPs have been highly critical of ASC’s performance on the Air Warfare Destroyer.
有意思的来了
国防团对中心主任Chris Burns表示如果日本被选为国际合作伙伴，西澳将有更多的工作机会，因为日本潜艇寿命较短，南澳会获得更多的翻修工作量。
（日本潜艇之前只服役不超过18年（战备16年，一部份多两年当练习潜艇），近日就算要扩充到22艘，每艘役期延长6年，不知道一开始结构设计是否就没打算使用太久，或许日本用强度较高的钢板是为了减轻结构重量，但缩短使用寿命）
Defence Teaming Centre chief Chris Burns has said if Japan is chosen as the international partner, Western Australia was likely to get more of the work because Japanese submarines have a shorter lifespan and the main work for SA is in major overhauls.
David Gould, Defence’s submarine chief, said that within Australia, ASC was “not the only option … by any means”.
澳洲潜艇产业主管David Gould表示ASC不是「唯一选择」（呵呵实际上应该是not an option），ASC是澳洲境内唯一有能力组装潜艇的地方，而且是否适合组装新设计的潜艇还是个问题
“I would agree that because the facilities that exist in SA at the ASC site, that the infrastructure and workforce is the only current workforce in Australia that could assemble the submarine — whether it be the right place to assemble a new design submarine is up for question,” he said.
“That does not mean that the entity we call ASC today is the right entity to do it.”
澳洲工对党发言人Stephen Conroy依照联邦信息法案对高层提出建言，深植本土工作机会才会将国家战略利益最大化
Opposition defence spokesman Stephen Conroy pointed to ministerial advice issued under Freedom of Information laws that said maximising local work would also maximise the nation’s sovereignty.
南澳独立上议员尼克·克塞诺丰（Nick Xenophon）举例澳洲政府过去如何修改竞争性评估程序的结果，把原本给德国人的合同交给美国人（就是先前更换柯林斯的战斗系统的案子，评估程序本身是德国胜出，最后却还是跟美国合作）
Separately, SA Independent Senator Nick Xenophon brought up an example of where the Government overrode the results of a competitive evaluation process to deliver a contract to the US instead of Germany.
国防部秘书Dennis Richardson表示这种指控只是基于假设
Defence Department secretary Dennis Richardson said that was “hypothetical”.
尼克·克塞诺丰表示，基于这个（过去的历史），澳洲潜艇计画的结果将完全由船长来决定（就是首相托尼.艾伯特）
“This confirms that at the end of the day where the Future Submarines will be built will be a Captain’s pick,” Senator Xenophon said.
澳洲工对党发言人Stephen Conroy批评现在所谓「竞争性评估程序」，实际上有明显证据根本就在「船长的摇杆」控制之下
Senator Conroy grilled the public servants on the competitive evaluation process and said there was “overwhelming evidence” it was a “Captain’s pick”.
已有大量外界批评，认为澳洲政府已经内定日本为获胜者。
国防部长凯文.安德鲁在6月初正与高官访问日本神户三菱重工造船厂等地，先前他们造访德国与法国
There are broad concerns among the Government’s critics that Japan will be given a leg up to win the contract. Defence Minister Kevin Andrews is in Japan meeting with his counterpart there, having already visited German and France.目前澳洲联邦政府的标准说法都是「目前尚没有决定具体方案（潜艇在澳洲或在国外造）」。
这篇报导说澳洲ASC厂「不是唯一选择」（not the only option），但实质上看澳洲潜艇案的走向，"only"这个字去掉恐怕对ASC更贴切....
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news ... i5yv7-1227378628564
ADELAIDE-BASED shipbuilder ASC is not the only option for building the Future Submarines, the Defence Department has revealed.
TORY SHEPHERD POLITICAL EDITOR
The Advertiser
June 02, 2015 10:46AM
澳洲国防部高层说ASC现有的流程不一定适合未来澳洲新潜艇的建造工作
Defence chiefs told Estimates that though ASC has the pre-eminent workforce now, it might not be right for a newly designed submarine.
他们也承认澳洲政府可以直接修改现在的竞争性评估程序（competitive evaluation process ，CEP）的结果，挑选一个不同的国际伙伴
They also conceded the Government could override the results of the competitive evaluation process and pick a different international partner.
甚至估计价值100亿澳币的未来护卫舰计画（SEA 5000）都可能在国外建造，而不是在本土ASC
Estimates also heard that the $10 billion Future Frigates could be built offshore rather than in SA and that there are delays affecting the $10 billion LAND 400 project — which SA is competing against Victoria to win.
澳洲造舰产业对于自身在未来的澳洲政府主要计画的地位感到忧心，澳洲联邦政府今年底公布的白皮书将会揭晓
The shipbuilding industry is concerned about the uncertainty over major projects, while the Government has promised its Defence White Paper, due by the end of the year, will provide many of the answers.
澳洲造舰业界与许多专家早就呼吁持续自主造军舰/潜艇的产业来阻止工作流失，而且政府过去曾承诺相关工作将以阿德莱德的造舰产业为中心；然而，目前没有任何保证ASC可以继续以现状维持（照去年底的消息，
自由党政府已经打算拆散这个当初为造柯林斯而成立的国营造舰企业）
The industry and many experts have called for a continuous build of ships and submarines to stop job losses, and the Government has promised what work there is will be “centred on” Adelaide. However, there is no guarantee ASC will exist in its current form or that more work won’t go interstate.
澳洲政府对ASC执行的防空驱逐舰计画（Air Warfare Destroyer，霍巴特级）早已有大量批评
Government MPs have been highly critical of ASC’s performance on the Air Warfare Destroyer.
有意思的来了
国防团对中心主任Chris Burns表示如果日本被选为国际合作伙伴，西澳将有更多的工作机会，因为日本潜艇寿命较短，南澳会获得更多的翻修工作量。
（日本潜艇之前只服役不超过18年（战备16年，一部份多两年当练习潜艇），近日就算要扩充到22艘，每艘役期延长6年，不知道一开始结构设计是否就没打算使用太久，或许日本用强度较高的钢板是为了减轻结构重量，但缩短使用寿命）
Defence Teaming Centre chief Chris Burns has said if Japan is chosen as the international partner, Western Australia was likely to get more of the work because Japanese submarines have a shorter lifespan and the main work for SA is in major overhauls.
David Gould, Defence’s submarine chief, said that within Australia, ASC was “not the only option … by any means”.
澳洲潜艇产业主管David Gould表示ASC不是「唯一选择」（呵呵实际上应该是not an option），ASC是澳洲境内唯一有能力组装潜艇的地方，而且是否适合组装新设计的潜艇还是个问题
“I would agree that because the facilities that exist in SA at the ASC site, that the infrastructure and workforce is the only current workforce in Australia that could assemble the submarine — whether it be the right place to assemble a new design submarine is up for question,” he said.
“That does not mean that the entity we call ASC today is the right entity to do it.”
澳洲工对党发言人Stephen Conroy依照联邦信息法案对高层提出建言，深植本土工作机会才会将国家战略利益最大化
Opposition defence spokesman Stephen Conroy pointed to ministerial advice issued under Freedom of Information laws that said maximising local work would also maximise the nation’s sovereignty.
南澳独立上议员尼克·克塞诺丰（Nick Xenophon）举例澳洲政府过去如何修改竞争性评估程序的结果，把原本给德国人的合同交给美国人（就是先前更换柯林斯的战斗系统的案子，评估程序本身是德国胜出，最后却还是跟美国合作）
Separately, SA Independent Senator Nick Xenophon brought up an example of where the Government overrode the results of a competitive evaluation process to deliver a contract to the US instead of Germany.
国防部秘书Dennis Richardson表示这种指控只是基于假设
Defence Department secretary Dennis Richardson said that was “hypothetical”.
尼克·克塞诺丰表示，基于这个（过去的历史），澳洲潜艇计画的结果将完全由船长来决定（就是首相托尼.艾伯特）
“This confirms that at the end of the day where the Future Submarines will be built will be a Captain’s pick,” Senator Xenophon said.
澳洲工对党发言人Stephen Conroy批评现在所谓「竞争性评估程序」，实际上有明显证据根本就在「船长的摇杆」控制之下
Senator Conroy grilled the public servants on the competitive evaluation process and said there was “overwhelming evidence” it was a “Captain’s pick”.
已有大量外界批评，认为澳洲政府已经内定日本为获胜者。
国防部长凯文.安德鲁在6月初正与高官访问日本神户三菱重工造船厂等地，先前他们造访德国与法国
There are broad concerns among the Government’s critics that Japan will be given a leg up to win the contract. Defence Minister Kevin Andrews is in Japan meeting with his counterpart there, having already visited German and France.
日前德国TKMS集团表示，如果让德国拿下潜艇以及澳洲新护卫舰订单，就会考虑购并ASC。
对此，澳洲政府否认有任何把ASC出售给国外集团的计画
No bidder yet for submarine maker ASC
AAP
May 27, 2015 4:16PM
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/ ... dxiwe-1227371343015
NONE of the contenders for Australia's new submarines has yet come forward with a bid to buy government-owned sub builder ASC.
BUT there's some interest, with German company ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems declaring last week it would seek to acquire ASC if it wins the submarine deal.
Finance Minister Mathias Cormann said he hadn't yet been approached by TKMS or any of the other bidders.
"No, I haven't," he told a Senate committee on Wednesday.
Under the government's competitive evaluation process, German firm TKMS, French firm DCNS and the Japanese government have been invited to submit their submarine designs, plus options for construction in Australia, overseas or a bit of both, along with indicative costs and delivery schedule. A decision is expected early next year.
澳洲上议员Cormann表示，日本政府高层以及川崎/三菱重工等潜艇制造商高层代表在周二（5月26日）访问考察ASC在阿德莱德的设施，周四（28日）考察ASC在西澳的设施
日本的目的是评估ASC造舰能力能扮演什么角色
（注，近日公开发言的几位日本人都是前海自或防卫省人员，不是官方立场）
Senator Cormann revealed that Japanese government and defence officials plus representatives of their submarine builders Kawasaki Heavy Industries and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries visited ASC in Adelaide on Tuesday.
They will visit the ASC facility in Western Australia on Thursday.
Senator Cormann said their objective was to assess Australian industry capabilities.
"There has been interaction between ASC and representatives from Germany, France and Japan in recent months," he said.
工党指控澳洲政府在潜艇竞标程序中给予日本「红地毯」特殊待遇
Labor has accused the government of giving Japan "red carpet treatment" in the process.
澳洲工对党发言人Stephen Conroy表示首相托尼.艾伯特像船长用摇杆一样控制计画，正以可耻的程序把合同直接给日本人，而刻意忽略参与竞争的德国与法国。
所谓的「竞争程序」只是软化反对的手段，潜艇在日本建造的决策木已成舟
Opposition defence spokesman Stephen Conroy says the Prime Minister Tony Abbott has gone ahead with a "captain's pick" to give the contract to Japan in a "sham process" that has overlooked French and German companies.
"There is a softening-up process taking place by senior government ministers because they know they've already done the deal to deliver the submarine build to Japan," he told reporters in Canberra.
对此，澳洲政府否认有任何把ASC出售给国外集团的计画
No bidder yet for submarine maker ASC
AAP
May 27, 2015 4:16PM
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/ ... dxiwe-1227371343015
NONE of the contenders for Australia's new submarines has yet come forward with a bid to buy government-owned sub builder ASC.
BUT there's some interest, with German company ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems declaring last week it would seek to acquire ASC if it wins the submarine deal.
Finance Minister Mathias Cormann said he hadn't yet been approached by TKMS or any of the other bidders.
"No, I haven't," he told a Senate committee on Wednesday.
Under the government's competitive evaluation process, German firm TKMS, French firm DCNS and the Japanese government have been invited to submit their submarine designs, plus options for construction in Australia, overseas or a bit of both, along with indicative costs and delivery schedule. A decision is expected early next year.
澳洲上议员Cormann表示，日本政府高层以及川崎/三菱重工等潜艇制造商高层代表在周二（5月26日）访问考察ASC在阿德莱德的设施，周四（28日）考察ASC在西澳的设施
日本的目的是评估ASC造舰能力能扮演什么角色
（注，近日公开发言的几位日本人都是前海自或防卫省人员，不是官方立场）
Senator Cormann revealed that Japanese government and defence officials plus representatives of their submarine builders Kawasaki Heavy Industries and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries visited ASC in Adelaide on Tuesday.
They will visit the ASC facility in Western Australia on Thursday.
Senator Cormann said their objective was to assess Australian industry capabilities.
"There has been interaction between ASC and representatives from Germany, France and Japan in recent months," he said.
工党指控澳洲政府在潜艇竞标程序中给予日本「红地毯」特殊待遇
Labor has accused the government of giving Japan "red carpet treatment" in the process.
澳洲工对党发言人Stephen Conroy表示首相托尼.艾伯特像船长用摇杆一样控制计画，正以可耻的程序把合同直接给日本人，而刻意忽略参与竞争的德国与法国。
所谓的「竞争程序」只是软化反对的手段，潜艇在日本建造的决策木已成舟
Opposition defence spokesman Stephen Conroy says the Prime Minister Tony Abbott has gone ahead with a "captain's pick" to give the contract to Japan in a "sham process" that has overlooked French and German companies.
"There is a softening-up process taking place by senior government ministers because they know they've already done the deal to deliver the submarine build to Japan," he told reporters in Canberra.
这就是最近前日本海自/防卫省人员跳出来发言认为ASC无力建造日本潜艇的原报导
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015- ... arine-build/6517730
Adelaide's shipyard is not capable of building Japan's Soryu submarines, a former Japanese submarine commander says.
近日澳洲防长凯文.安德鲁访问日本参观建造苍龙级的建造厂（澳洲参观的是神户，并将实际登上苍龙级参观）
The assessment comes as Defence Minister Kevin Andrews visits Japan to inspect Soryus, tipped as the preferred option to replace Australia's Collin Class fleet.
安德鲁说苍龙级的尺度大致符合澳洲需要，但必须进行一些修改
Mr Andrews said the submarine was about the size Australia is looking for, but required some alterations.
购买日本潜艇获得首相托尼.艾伯特的个人背书
The purchase of the subs has the personal backing of Prime Minister Tony Abbott.
前海自潜艇指挥官Masao Kobayashi （就是小林正夫吧！）表示，不确定澳洲ASC船厂能否建造高科技的日本潜艇，「他们没有足够的焊接工人处理日本的高张力钢板，这项工作在日本就已经很困难」
But former commander of the Japanese submarine fleet Masao Kobayashi said he was not sure the high-tech build could be successfully carried out in the Adelaide shipyards.
"They don't enough skilled workers to fashion the high-tension steel; it's even hard to do in Japan," he said.
防卫省前任官员Hisayuki Tamura表示，日本是建造高科技潜艇的最佳地方，苍龙是全世界最好的常规潜艇，而日本有最好的技术来建造他们。
Captain Hisayuki Tamura from the Japanese Ministry of Defence also said Japan was best placed to build the high-tech submarines.
"It's the best conventional non-nuclear submarine and we have the best technology to build them," he said.
另一位前海自潜艇舰长Toshihide Yamauchi表示，对于日本是否愿意将机苍龙的敏技术转交给澳洲，他表示不太可能。
「转移核心技术对日本不是选项，我们担心相关技术透过澳洲流向中国」
Another former Japanese submarine captain, Toshihide Yamauchi, said it was still to be negotiated just how much of the top secret Soryu technology can be handed over.
"Releasing the core technology is not an option for Japan," he said.
"We're worried about leaks to China once our technology is in Australia.
"We need to sort out expectations from both sides."
澳洲防长凯文.安德鲁曾表示，厂商愿意转移多少关键技术，也是竞争性评估程序的要项之一。
「我们必须了解潜艇源头技术，才能评估要修改设计来符合澳洲需求时，必须做出哪些变更，成本会是多少」
Mr Andrews said deciding how much of the secret technology was shared with Australia would be part of the competitive evaluation process.
"What we need to know is what they are at the outset, have an understanding of what's involved in making those design modification changes and ultimately we need to know what the cost is as well," he said.
整个澳洲新潜艇计画从设计建造到全寿期维持、修改，总成本应在500亿澳币以内
The contract to build Australia's next fleet of submarines, worth about $50 billion, is between Japan, France and Germany.
防长凯文.安德鲁表示，跟任何国家的合作将会牵涉到在阿德莱德的人员的长期训练
Mr Andrews said a deal with any of the countries could involve the long-term training of staff in Adelaide.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015- ... arine-build/6517730
Adelaide's shipyard is not capable of building Japan's Soryu submarines, a former Japanese submarine commander says.
近日澳洲防长凯文.安德鲁访问日本参观建造苍龙级的建造厂（澳洲参观的是神户，并将实际登上苍龙级参观）
The assessment comes as Defence Minister Kevin Andrews visits Japan to inspect Soryus, tipped as the preferred option to replace Australia's Collin Class fleet.
安德鲁说苍龙级的尺度大致符合澳洲需要，但必须进行一些修改
Mr Andrews said the submarine was about the size Australia is looking for, but required some alterations.
购买日本潜艇获得首相托尼.艾伯特的个人背书
The purchase of the subs has the personal backing of Prime Minister Tony Abbott.
前海自潜艇指挥官Masao Kobayashi （就是小林正夫吧！）表示，不确定澳洲ASC船厂能否建造高科技的日本潜艇，「他们没有足够的焊接工人处理日本的高张力钢板，这项工作在日本就已经很困难」
But former commander of the Japanese submarine fleet Masao Kobayashi said he was not sure the high-tech build could be successfully carried out in the Adelaide shipyards.
"They don't enough skilled workers to fashion the high-tension steel; it's even hard to do in Japan," he said.
防卫省前任官员Hisayuki Tamura表示，日本是建造高科技潜艇的最佳地方，苍龙是全世界最好的常规潜艇，而日本有最好的技术来建造他们。
Captain Hisayuki Tamura from the Japanese Ministry of Defence also said Japan was best placed to build the high-tech submarines.
"It's the best conventional non-nuclear submarine and we have the best technology to build them," he said.
另一位前海自潜艇舰长Toshihide Yamauchi表示，对于日本是否愿意将机苍龙的敏技术转交给澳洲，他表示不太可能。
「转移核心技术对日本不是选项，我们担心相关技术透过澳洲流向中国」
Another former Japanese submarine captain, Toshihide Yamauchi, said it was still to be negotiated just how much of the top secret Soryu technology can be handed over.
"Releasing the core technology is not an option for Japan," he said.
"We're worried about leaks to China once our technology is in Australia.
"We need to sort out expectations from both sides."
澳洲防长凯文.安德鲁曾表示，厂商愿意转移多少关键技术，也是竞争性评估程序的要项之一。
「我们必须了解潜艇源头技术，才能评估要修改设计来符合澳洲需求时，必须做出哪些变更，成本会是多少」
Mr Andrews said deciding how much of the secret technology was shared with Australia would be part of the competitive evaluation process.
"What we need to know is what they are at the outset, have an understanding of what's involved in making those design modification changes and ultimately we need to know what the cost is as well," he said.
整个澳洲新潜艇计画从设计建造到全寿期维持、修改，总成本应在500亿澳币以内
The contract to build Australia's next fleet of submarines, worth about $50 billion, is between Japan, France and Germany.
防长凯文.安德鲁表示，跟任何国家的合作将会牵涉到在阿德莱德的人员的长期训练
Mr Andrews said a deal with any of the countries could involve the long-term training of staff in Adelaide.
不转让技术，不开放源代码这生意难成。袋鼠没那么容易甘心。。反对党会借题发挥。没日本还有德国等欧洲选项
不转让技术，不开放源代码这生意难成。袋鼠没那么容易甘心。。反对党会借题发挥。没日本还有德国等欧洲选项
前面报导提到了前海自潜艇舰长Toshihide Yamauchi的观点。
实际上在2014年9月南澳媒体就引用过他的观点，指出日本不会分享机敏技术，澳洲应该实际评估自己需要从日本获得哪些技术而不是只想著购买成品
Japanese military warns against subs deal: report
http://indaily.com.au/news/2014/ ... s-subs-deal-report/
The fifth "Soryu" submarine fitted with AIP (Air Independent Propulsion) equipment, commissioned in 2011.
Adelaide | Former senior Japanese defence personnel have warned there is great reluctance within their ranks to share expertise – and caution that Australia could face long-term technical and implementation problems if it decides to buy Japanese submarines.
当时报导指出澳洲政府持续评估是否购买10艘苍龙级潜艇（当时托尼.艾伯特真的想直接跟日本签合同，没打算竞争），总价值200亿澳币
The report emerged today as the Australian Government continues its assessment of whether it should buy 10 state-of-the-art Soryu class submarines from Japan, at a reported price of more than $20 billion.
苍龙是当今国外唯一接近澳洲需求的大型远程常规潜艇，这样让阿德莱德的造舰产业忧心其未来
The Japanese subs are the only long range non-nuclear design that fits the Australian Navy’s specifications for boats to replace the current Collins Class, raising fears for the future of shipbuilding in Adelaide.
前日本防卫省顾问Kazuhisa Ogawa表示，关键在于艇体强度；日本有秘密的独门技术，包括特殊的高强度钢板以及减噪，而日本愿意分享多少这类技术给澳洲将是关键。
“It’s an issue of hull strength. Japan has secret technology, like special steel and noise reduction. So the issue is how can we share it,” Kazuhisa Ogawa, a former government defence adviser and one of Japan’s top military analysts, told Radio Australia.
He said the success of submarine warfare was decided by how quiet and deep the vessels could go.
有近30年海上服役经验的前海自潜艇舰长Toshihide Yamauchi对ABC北亚洲特派员表示，苍龙级的耐压钢板是日本二战后60年苦心研究的心血结晶，他认为日本不会轻易分享出去。
「这不只是如何造潜艇，这是全世界最先进的潜艇，澳洲需要在日本协助下密集地努力才有可能，这个程序将耗费十年以上
Former Japanese submarine commander Toshihide Yamauchi, who was at sea for nearly 30 years. told the ABC’s North Asia correspondent that it took Japan 60 years to develop and master the Soryu technology, and he believed they would not just give it all away.
“This is not just about building a hull, it’s the most advanced submarine in the world and unless Australia studies it intensely and Japan helps, it will take decades,” he said.
“Australia could have many technical and implementation problems.”
Yamauchi 与Ogawa都指出，如果澳洲政府只想花200亿澳币，潜艇势必会在日本建造，如果要技术转移在澳洲建造，成本会翻倍。
Yamauchi and Ogawa both told the ABC that an Australian budget of $20 billion would mean that all the construction would have to happen in Japan.
And they said any attempts to do any of the work in Adelaide would double the price.
这才是南澳媒体找来这几位日本前官员/军官的重点：
Ogawa表示，选择日本潜艇对澳洲工作机会是个坏消息，当然这对日本经记有利；如果能为澳洲造潜艇，日本业界当然很高兴。
Yamauchi表示，以澳洲立场，直接购买日本潜艇并非最佳选择，并强调澳洲应该持续发展自己的产业
「澳洲应该先厘清自己需要什么样的潜艇，需要从日本获得什么样的技术协助并寻求可能的合作，而不是直接来买苍龙级」
Ogawa said if construction happened in Japan it would be bad for Australian jobs, but good for the Japanese economy.
“If the issue of military secrets can be resolved then Japanese business will be happy it will bring jobs and growth,” he said.
Retired submarine commander Yamauchi said buying the Japanese subs was not in Australia’s best interests, adding that Australia should keep developing its own industry.
“Australia should be clear about what kind of submarine it wants for its naval strategy for the later half of this century.
“Then it needs to ask Japan what part it can help with and get co-operation. Just to ask for the whole Soryu is not a good idea.”
实际上在2014年9月南澳媒体就引用过他的观点，指出日本不会分享机敏技术，澳洲应该实际评估自己需要从日本获得哪些技术而不是只想著购买成品
Japanese military warns against subs deal: report
http://indaily.com.au/news/2014/ ... s-subs-deal-report/
The fifth "Soryu" submarine fitted with AIP (Air Independent Propulsion) equipment, commissioned in 2011.
Adelaide | Former senior Japanese defence personnel have warned there is great reluctance within their ranks to share expertise – and caution that Australia could face long-term technical and implementation problems if it decides to buy Japanese submarines.
当时报导指出澳洲政府持续评估是否购买10艘苍龙级潜艇（当时托尼.艾伯特真的想直接跟日本签合同，没打算竞争），总价值200亿澳币
The report emerged today as the Australian Government continues its assessment of whether it should buy 10 state-of-the-art Soryu class submarines from Japan, at a reported price of more than $20 billion.
苍龙是当今国外唯一接近澳洲需求的大型远程常规潜艇，这样让阿德莱德的造舰产业忧心其未来
The Japanese subs are the only long range non-nuclear design that fits the Australian Navy’s specifications for boats to replace the current Collins Class, raising fears for the future of shipbuilding in Adelaide.
前日本防卫省顾问Kazuhisa Ogawa表示，关键在于艇体强度；日本有秘密的独门技术，包括特殊的高强度钢板以及减噪，而日本愿意分享多少这类技术给澳洲将是关键。
“It’s an issue of hull strength. Japan has secret technology, like special steel and noise reduction. So the issue is how can we share it,” Kazuhisa Ogawa, a former government defence adviser and one of Japan’s top military analysts, told Radio Australia.
He said the success of submarine warfare was decided by how quiet and deep the vessels could go.
有近30年海上服役经验的前海自潜艇舰长Toshihide Yamauchi对ABC北亚洲特派员表示，苍龙级的耐压钢板是日本二战后60年苦心研究的心血结晶，他认为日本不会轻易分享出去。
「这不只是如何造潜艇，这是全世界最先进的潜艇，澳洲需要在日本协助下密集地努力才有可能，这个程序将耗费十年以上
Former Japanese submarine commander Toshihide Yamauchi, who was at sea for nearly 30 years. told the ABC’s North Asia correspondent that it took Japan 60 years to develop and master the Soryu technology, and he believed they would not just give it all away.
“This is not just about building a hull, it’s the most advanced submarine in the world and unless Australia studies it intensely and Japan helps, it will take decades,” he said.
“Australia could have many technical and implementation problems.”
Yamauchi 与Ogawa都指出，如果澳洲政府只想花200亿澳币，潜艇势必会在日本建造，如果要技术转移在澳洲建造，成本会翻倍。
Yamauchi and Ogawa both told the ABC that an Australian budget of $20 billion would mean that all the construction would have to happen in Japan.
And they said any attempts to do any of the work in Adelaide would double the price.
这才是南澳媒体找来这几位日本前官员/军官的重点：
Ogawa表示，选择日本潜艇对澳洲工作机会是个坏消息，当然这对日本经记有利；如果能为澳洲造潜艇，日本业界当然很高兴。
Yamauchi表示，以澳洲立场，直接购买日本潜艇并非最佳选择，并强调澳洲应该持续发展自己的产业
「澳洲应该先厘清自己需要什么样的潜艇，需要从日本获得什么样的技术协助并寻求可能的合作，而不是直接来买苍龙级」
Ogawa said if construction happened in Japan it would be bad for Australian jobs, but good for the Japanese economy.
“If the issue of military secrets can be resolved then Japanese business will be happy it will bring jobs and growth,” he said.
Retired submarine commander Yamauchi said buying the Japanese subs was not in Australia’s best interests, adding that Australia should keep developing its own industry.
“Australia should be clear about what kind of submarine it wants for its naval strategy for the later half of this century.
“Then it needs to ask Japan what part it can help with and get co-operation. Just to ask for the whole Soryu is not a good idea.”
表示关注。。
这事上中国应该出分力，从政治上给搅黄了才好。做到逢日必反的境界。
澳洲军工业界表示，日本在潜艇案里明显获得偏袒。最近我们接待一些来自三家竞争者的简报，但只有日本方面由澳洲国防高层官员陪同，有翻译员随行，并且获得更好的接待只支援，而其他竞争者的代表基本上只能自理。
"Recently, we've hosted a number of briefing sessions with the contenders from the three countries and what industry has made a particular point about is that the Japanese delegation was accompanied by senior defence officials from the Australian Government," spokesman Chris Burns said.
"They were provided with interpreters and they seemed to be afforded much better support than the other countries and other contenders who had to literally look after themselves."
Independent senator Nick Xenophon said the competitive evaluation process "has been exposed to be a farce".
南澳独立上议员Nick Xenophon表示所谓的「竞争性评估程序」显然只是个闹剧，明显结局已定，潜艇将会在日本建造，因为这就是托尼.艾伯特跟他的几个关键顾问的愿望。
"I have no doubt that the fix is in, that Japan will end up building the subs overseas because that is the wish of the Prime Minister and his key advisors."
当然澳洲防长凯文.安德鲁坚持，三个竞争者获得相同的待遇，我们是再确保澳洲获得最适合的潜艇，并能及时接替柯林斯级而不造成空缺，而这个潜艇案会为南澳制造500个高职量工作机会。
（再次间接印证潜艇不打算在澳洲造，如果在澳洲造，工作机会将以千计！）
Mr Andrews insisted all three bidders would be treated "fairly and equitably".
"We are ensuring that Australia obtains the most capable conventional submarines in the world while avoiding a capability gap after the current Collins Class submarines," he said.
"The Government expects that significant work will be undertaken in Australia during the build phase of the future submarine including combat systems integration, design assurance and land based testing.
"This will result in the creation of at least 500 new high-skilled jobs in Australia, the majority of which will be based in South Australia."
"Recently, we've hosted a number of briefing sessions with the contenders from the three countries and what industry has made a particular point about is that the Japanese delegation was accompanied by senior defence officials from the Australian Government," spokesman Chris Burns said.
"They were provided with interpreters and they seemed to be afforded much better support than the other countries and other contenders who had to literally look after themselves."
Independent senator Nick Xenophon said the competitive evaluation process "has been exposed to be a farce".
南澳独立上议员Nick Xenophon表示所谓的「竞争性评估程序」显然只是个闹剧，明显结局已定，潜艇将会在日本建造，因为这就是托尼.艾伯特跟他的几个关键顾问的愿望。
"I have no doubt that the fix is in, that Japan will end up building the subs overseas because that is the wish of the Prime Minister and his key advisors."
当然澳洲防长凯文.安德鲁坚持，三个竞争者获得相同的待遇，我们是再确保澳洲获得最适合的潜艇，并能及时接替柯林斯级而不造成空缺，而这个潜艇案会为南澳制造500个高职量工作机会。
（再次间接印证潜艇不打算在澳洲造，如果在澳洲造，工作机会将以千计！）
Mr Andrews insisted all three bidders would be treated "fairly and equitably".
"We are ensuring that Australia obtains the most capable conventional submarines in the world while avoiding a capability gap after the current Collins Class submarines," he said.
"The Government expects that significant work will be undertaken in Australia during the build phase of the future submarine including combat systems integration, design assurance and land based testing.
"This will result in the creation of at least 500 new high-skilled jobs in Australia, the majority of which will be based in South Australia."
moverzkkkk 发表于 2015-6-7 08:05
不转让技术，不开放源代码这生意难成。袋鼠没那么容易甘心。。反对党会借题发挥。没日本还有德国等欧洲选项
实质上会是个大问题，想像一下万一日本拒绝输出钢材制造跟加工技术，以后澳洲买了潜艇，所有要处理船壳的维修翻修工作都得回日本造船厂进行。
这样，澳洲就必须确保长期维持跟日本非常紧密的战略关系，但这只是现在托尼.艾伯特政府的想法。
不转让技术，不开放源代码这生意难成。袋鼠没那么容易甘心。。反对党会借题发挥。没日本还有德国等欧洲选项
实质上会是个大问题，想像一下万一日本拒绝输出钢材制造跟加工技术，以后澳洲买了潜艇，所有要处理船壳的维修翻修工作都得回日本造船厂进行。
这样，澳洲就必须确保长期维持跟日本非常紧密的战略关系，但这只是现在托尼.艾伯特政府的想法。
多重发了。。。这网络。。
多重发了。。。这网络。。
多多挑逗袋鼠反对党造舆论阿伯特收黑钱。。。再暗中发话，袋鼠要买日本潜艇我们就少买澳洲矿石，转多买巴西。。日本到处想搅黄大陆高铁出口，我们也要有动作
袋鼠历来是跟着美国后面跑的。
皿煮国家卖武器就是矫情
他们为什么不选德国货呢？
他们为什么不选德国货呢？
德国的216在图纸上，澳大利亚要花多少钱填阬？
德国的216在图纸上，澳大利亚要花多少钱填阬？