俄外长:伊拉克乱局证明美国当年入侵“彻底失败”

来源:百度文库 编辑:超级军网 时间:2024/03/29 22:02:51
http://news.ifeng.com/a/20140614/40731942_0.shtml

原标题:俄称乱局证明美国入侵“彻底失败”

俄罗斯外长谢尔盖·拉夫罗夫12日说,伊拉克北部大片地区近日被反政府武装攻占,这清楚地表明美国当年入侵伊拉克“彻底失败”。

多家俄罗斯通讯社援引拉夫罗夫的话报道,伊拉克当前所发生的事情表明美国和英国当年入侵伊拉克“彻底失败”,俄罗斯很早之前就发出警告,认为美英入侵伊拉克“不会有好结果”。http://news.ifeng.com/a/20140614/40731942_0.shtml

原标题:俄称乱局证明美国入侵“彻底失败”

俄罗斯外长谢尔盖·拉夫罗夫12日说,伊拉克北部大片地区近日被反政府武装攻占,这清楚地表明美国当年入侵伊拉克“彻底失败”。

多家俄罗斯通讯社援引拉夫罗夫的话报道,伊拉克当前所发生的事情表明美国和英国当年入侵伊拉克“彻底失败”,俄罗斯很早之前就发出警告,认为美英入侵伊拉克“不会有好结果”。
发重了,请删除。
政府无能,卡尔扎伊还敢叫板呢,伊拉克政府连个屁也不敢放
毛子开始幸灾乐祸了
转个贴子,看看伊拉克人这么多年的生活历程。

发信人: jamesbeyond (国产铃铃漆), 信区: Military
标  题: 看看今天的伊拉克,米帝智囊有P个智慧
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Fri Jun 13 16:56:18 2014, 美东)

以前看过quora的这个帖子

那还是3年前的帖子,有个貌似美国小白问:今天的伊拉克是不是比萨达姆在的时候更
安全。然后有个刚刚移民来美国的伊拉克小年轻的回帖被推了一千多次。

看了感觉米帝自作孽,潘朵拉盒子开了,仇美恐怖分子跟发豆芽一样。米帝以后苦头有
的吃。美国养了这么多think tank智囊,有屁个智慧。仁义不施而攻守之势易也,老祖
宗诚不我欺也。老将小将都值得看看。

http://www.quora.com/Iraq/Is-Iraq-a-safer-place-now-compared-to

Is Iraq a safer place now compared to what it was like during Saddam Hussein
's regime? And what does the future hold for the country?


Wael Al-Sallami, born and raised in Iraq.

I'm an Iraqi national. I was born in 1988, just four months before the end
of the Iraq-Iran war. I then survived the Iraq-Kuwait war and the American
attack as a 3 year old. I lived through the US-enforced sanctions that did
absolutely nothing to Saddam, although severely harmed Iraqis in so many
ways. And I finally survived yet another war in 2003 and went through the
horrific times that took the lives of so many good people.

But was it really safer back then? Did the Americans really help Iraqis? Was
it worse before 2003?! I think those are all misguided questions, and here'
s why:

Iraq was a really wealthy country back in the 80's, and even though it went
through an eight-year long war against Iran, its economy wasn't affected as
much as one would expect, and Saddam was able to rebuild much of what was
destroyed in a matter of months. But then Kuwait was lowering oil prices to
harm the Iraqi economy in a time we needed money the most.. Saddam tried to
talk them out of it on several occasions, but they didn't back out. So
Saddam came up with the idea that Kuwait was historically a part of Iraq,
and that he should claim it back!

While that claim is in fact historically true, it wasn't exactly right to
just go invade Kuwait and kill everyone there! But he did it anyways. The
result was that the US attacked Iraq, killing many of innocent people in the
process. The Iraqi people fought back fiercely but failed to defend
themselves against the US military might; however, fortunately for Saddam,
the US backed out at the last minute. They later enforced the sanctions that
left Iraq cut out from the rest of the world, and slowly killed the Iraqis!

At the time, my father was a Ph.D student, my mother was a teacher. I had a
little sister and an older brother. And since my father was a government
employee, they paid him while he studied. They paid him 8000 Dinars/month,
the equivalent of $4 at the time. My mother was paid 3000 Dinars/month, the
equivalent of $1.5. A family of 5 was living off of $5.5/month, and that was
the case for pretty much all low-level government employees during the 90's.

It took my father 4 years to finish his Ph.D in 1998. Those 4 years were by
far the worst I've lived, and I've lived through some serious crap, trust me.

After 1998, things started to get just a little bit better. Saddam was
sensing his end, and so he tried to make a few improvements in salaries and
services. He even tried to introduce a controlled-version of satellite TV as
well as wireless cellphones. However, he didn't have time to finish,
because in 2003, America struck again. This time with the intention of
removing Saddam from power, and yet again, killed thousands of innocent
Iraqis in the process. But there was a particular difference this time, the
Iraqi people weren't willing to fight back as hard. They just sat back while
the US Army took over.

And this is why this, and all similar questions, are misguided. Iraq was
safer and much wealthier back in the 80's, it was the United States that
made it so poor and horrible through the 1991 attack and more importantly,
the sanctions. And then, they came back in 2003 to save Iraqi people from
what they've done themselves after Iraqis had grown so sick of their way of
life, so much that they were OK with anyone coming in to change it!

And that, my friend, was the most hypocritical move in modern history! To
add insult to injury, the 2003 war didn't improve things much. It actually
made matters worse! Instead of people living really safely but extremely
poor, the picture flipped and people became somewhat wealthy, but safety was
gone with the wind. People had one Saddam to be afraid of, now they have
hundreds! They used to live safely by keeping their mouth shut, now they
couldn't even if they do. Iraqis were being killed for having the wrong
religion, the wrong place of birth, and a lot of the time, the wrong name.
2006 was worse than 1991 and 2003 combined. Militias took over, and it was
chaos.

After 2007, things started to get a little better. Babylon, the city I lived
in, was getting much safer, but Baghdad, and a few other cities, were still
dangerous. It took some time for them to become relatively stable. But
every now and then, we still got a few car bombings, suicide bombings, or at
least a few kidnappings here and there.

My father started making ~$3K/month, my mother about a quarter of that, and
we lived really comfortably financially. But so far, my brother has survived
one car bombing, and I about four, and that's only because we lived in a
safe city. Chances are I would have already lost a family member if we lived
in Baghdad.

So, there's your answer. I had the opportunity to visit the States for a few
months. I then helped found a startup in NYC upon returning to Iraq, and
finally went back to America for grad school. I now have many good friends
here, and I know how Americans are ashamed of what their country did to mine
. I personally don't blame Americans for all what I and other Iraqis have
been through, but facts remain facts, and a lot of Iraqis hate Americans for
what they did.

I believe that leadership is usually the party responsible for wars, so I
find it sad that no one can see that Americans shouldn't take all the blame,
or even find it in themselves to forgive them. After all, our leadership
also did horrible things to Kuwaitis back in 1991.
http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t/Military/41900315.html
美国就是祸根啊,不论制度,就看国家境况,萨达姆时期伊拉克可是中东富裕国家,社会相对稳定,国力强盛。经过美英一出手,伊拉克彻底沦为动乱国家,国家破败,人民遭殃,当初那些带路党期待的冥主自由就是这样?
美国是商人,他不会做利他人的事情,从二战开始就是如此。
问题是美国为什么要为外国人的幸福安全负责?这么浅显的问题,咋那么多人想不开呢,总指望王师给他们带来幸福。
毛子现在跟美国闹掰了,说话真是一点顾忌都没了。
大毛不带这样打酱油的.
杨少凡 发表于 2014-6-14 08:15
问题是美国为什么要为外国人的幸福安全负责?这么浅显的问题,咋那么多人想不开呢,总指望王师给他们带来幸 ...
以莫须有的罪名闯进别人的家里把人家打个稀巴烂要找的东西毛都没找到,砸完之后连人家里维持秩序的一个都不要全部下岗搞得各地狼烟四起。砸完你倒是给人家从建啊,这么多年除了建军营还建啥了,你美国人把人家家里搞成那个样子你不负责谁负责?搞不下去了就像拍拍屁股走人么?你美国佬宣传的那些ZYMJ都跑哪去了,这是一个世界大国该干的么?
外长说的很对!
确实很失败,估计美国也没料到,一个大的战略实施过程中总会出现变数,并因此而战略成功或受挫,事情并不总是受控制,大旗党还是歇歇吧。
转个贴子,看看伊拉克人这么多年的生活历程。
你倒是翻译一下啊!看不懂嘛!
俄外长这么嗨,超大的带路党知道么?!
喜大普奔?
看看TB搞越猴,再看看MD搞伊拉克,不得不赞叹领导人英明啊!
墨无土不白 发表于 2014-6-14 08:51
确实很失败,估计美国也没料到,一个大的战略实施过程中总会出现变数,并因此而战略成功或受挫,事情并不总 ...
还大的战略,笑死人了
他现在什么都没有好吧,只会让人看到他的无能和愚蠢。
美不会有好结果就对了,以我们的儒家看法,美一直在作死,所以必死了,。
拉夫罗夫说的是实话,美国人也知道。
xiaobailong 发表于 2014-6-14 07:10
转个贴子,看看伊拉克人这么多年的生活历程。
只懂了字母,不知啥意思
huhu37 发表于 2014-6-14 08:33
以莫须有的罪名闯进别人的家里把人家打个稀巴烂要找的东西毛都没找到,砸完之后连人家里维持秩序的一个都 ...
好多GZJY在看守所里——那个老头出来了没有
墨无土不白 发表于 2014-6-14 08:51
确实很失败,估计美国也没料到,一个大的战略实施过程中总会出现变数,并因此而战略成功或受挫,事情并不总 ...
美国打伊拉克 也叫战略?
SH冷水 发表于 2014-6-14 20:48
美国打伊拉克 也叫战略?
拿下伊拉克进入中东,按布热大棋局的安排,的确有这么个战略

几千惨死伊拉克的美军冤哪,被自己的祖国用完就扔,像狗一样白死了
奔跑中的泰山 发表于 2014-6-14 08:58
你倒是翻译一下啊!看不懂嘛!

不做全文翻译了,简单说一下主要内容,就是说,80年代虽然有两伊战争,但是伊拉克国内民众的生活还是很富足的。两伊战争结束后几个月,萨达姆就让人重建了战争中毁坏的大部分东西。

--注:下面一段是这个人给萨达姆入侵科威特做的辩解,重点翻译一下。

但是那个时候科威特降低了石油价格,这损害了伊拉克的经济,还是在伊拉克最需要钱的时候。萨达姆试图劝说他们不要这样做,但是他们不听。于是萨达姆想起了科威特历史上曾经是伊拉克的一部分,他要把它拿回来。虽然从历史来说确实是这样,可是入侵科威特并杀死每个人的做法并不正确。然而不管怎样他那么做了。结果美国攻击了伊拉克并且杀死了很多无辜的人。伊拉克人狠狠地进行了还击,但是仍然在对美国军队的防卫中失败了。然而,对萨达姆幸运的是,美国在最后一分钟撤退了。他们后来实施了制裁,让伊拉克和这个世界隔绝了,逐渐导致了很多伊拉克人的死亡。


接下来作者说了一些个人生活,当时他父亲是政府雇员,在职读博士,每个月从政府领取工资,8000 Dinars,在当时相当于4美元。母亲是教师,每月工资3000 Dinars。四年后,1998年,老爸博士毕业,工资增加了,家里的生活好了一些。

而萨达姆仿佛也嗅到了自己即将灭亡的信号,所以试图做一些改善,包括增加工资,改善服务,甚至筹划了建立卫星电视和无线通讯。不过他没有时间完成这些,因为在2003年美国再次攻击了伊拉克。这次的目标是要推翻萨达姆政权,当然又一次,杀死了成千上万的无辜的人。但是这次有个显著的不同,伊拉克民众不愿意顽强反抗了。大家就这样旁观美国军队接手了。


后面又说了一写总结性质的话,主要是说,80年代生活很好,90年代由于国际制裁生活很糟糕。而2003年之后,物质条件上比90年代好了,但是生活很不安全。以前他们有一个萨达姆需要害怕,现在有几百个。以前闭上嘴就能安全生活,现在甚至闭上嘴也不安全了。伊拉克人因为错误的信仰,错误的出生地或者错误的名字而被杀。2006年比1991和2003年加起来都更糟糕。武装分子控制一切,到处都是乱糟糟。

2007年之后,局势好转,我生活的巴比伦城比巴格达局势好得多。老爸每个月赚3千美元,老妈赚这个的四分之一。经济上情况很好,但是我哥哥在一次汽车炸弹袭击中幸免于难,而我经历了四次还仍然活着。这都是因为我们生活在一个安全的城市。如果生活在巴格达,概率上来说,恐怕我们已经失去了一个家庭成员了。

我个人并不谴责美国人对我们所做的一切,但是事实是,很多伊拉克人为美国人的所做所为而痛恨他们。我认为领导(萨达姆)应该对战争负责,很难过没有人看到我们不应该把所有的罪责归咎于美国人身上。说到底,我们的领导在1991年也对科威特做了可怕的事情。
lonqixia 发表于 2014-6-14 21:26
几千惨死伊拉克的美军冤哪,被自己的祖国用完就扔,像狗一样白死了
一死百了,倒也罢了。那五万伤兵才是苦,缺胳膊少腿少只眼少只耳,各种不方便活受罪。
xiaobailong 发表于 2014-6-13 17:10
转个贴子,看看伊拉克人这么多年的生活历程。
看完了,的确很辛酸

真希望网上那一票美狗能够读读这文章。
以莫须有的罪名闯进别人的家里把人家打个稀巴烂要找的东西毛都没找到,
=================================
本來就是盗贼要找个理由进屋,难得还有那麽多人有兴趣讨论贼说那个理由。