李显龙发言原文+翻译 驳斥国内部分媒体言论(不敢发原文 ...

来源:百度文库 编辑:超级军网 时间:2024/04/26 00:54:45


编辑下,不能针对某报,对事不对报哈。

只看一句话不看整段意思的喷子,楼主均截取整段要求喷子翻译,到时候收作业。继续浏览的人不妨看下谁给意见的同时有例证,还是一句话新闻大字报。本帖讨论的原文如何理解翻译,某报哗众取宠的翻译对国际关系是否有“建设性”的作用。


主持人问了个历史方面的问题,以下是李显龙回答
PM: “ World War II was a massive event for Japan…After the war, it took a long time for relations between Japan and its neighbors to come back to normal because there was not a reconciliation process that happened in Europe. In Europe, the Germans, they repudiated the Nazis, they repudiated Adolf Hitler. Every school child grows up knowing that that was a bad period, those were bad people. Germany was now into a new phase. And if you read the French textbooks or the German textbooks, you will get more or less the same story of the Second World War. Maybe not be exactly the same perspective, but basically the same story. It did not happen in Asia between Japan and its neighbours. Many years have passed. As I said just now, the strategic situation is completely different. The populations have grown up. It is a new generation. So it is not the same situation as before. In the case of Singapore, the first generation who lived through the war and the very difficult conditions when the Japanese invaded Singapore, they will never forget the experience. Every year on the anniversary of the fall of Singapore, 15th February, the old people go there to remember the relatives who died and they weep. So they will never forget. My parent’s generation will never forget until the day they die because they lived through that, they know what it was. My generation did not live through that, but we know from our fathers what it was like and their stories. If my father had been taken away, he would not have come back and I would not be here today. My uncle, my mother’s brother, was taken away and never came back. So these memories move some. My children’s generation, they don’t have those memories, not even second-hand; maybe third-hand. So we have moved on. And as a society, we have moved on. In the 1960s, there was a period when we discovered the mass graves where the civilians had been massacred in Singapore. There was an outcry. I remember the day because I saw them coming to dig up the graves next to my school. There was a big outcry, I think the Japanese government made an apology, donated some money and we built a memorial. So between Singapore and Japan, the chapter is closed. Officially, we have moved on. And we have very good relations between Singapore and Japan since then - investments, trade, cooperation in many areas. I think with other countries in Asia, you have not reached that point. Certainly with China, you are nowhere near that point. With Korea, you have not reached that point. So if you reopen the old subjects - whether it is comfort women, whether it is aggression, whether there is an apology or no apology – well, it is your prerogative to do so, but you have to consider whether this will be helpful in the context of your relations with other Asian countries and whether it is the most important thing you want to do. But that is for Japan to decide.”

(之前李显龙回忆了自己的家庭,包括祖辈对侵略历史的记忆,谈到了德国和欧洲的例子,即欧洲的和解。最后谈到新加坡和日本和解了,因为日本Japanese government made an apology, donated some money and we built a memorial,日本政府发表了道歉,捐了钱,从此日本和新加坡展开了多方面的的合作,接下来的话意思如下)但是我认为你们(指日本)和其他国家还没有达成和解。你们和中国的关系差的太远,和韩国也一样(nowhere from that point)。所以一旦提到历史问题,无论是慰安妇,侵略历史,还是道歉或者不道歉,当然你们有你们选择的权利,但是你们需要考虑你们的行为是否对于周边国家关系有利,是不是对于你们也是最重要的事情。当然,选择权在你们日本人(译者注:国际关系原则,表达意见,但不干涉内政)。


接下来有关于南海的陈述:
PM: “Well, we try to do that. Every generation grows up in a new environment and new circumstances. The old generation always feels ‘we want them to remember what we remember’, but the young generation did not live through those and they will have to form their own key memories. But at the same time, we hope that the most salient and relevant parts of what the older generation has learnt and seen, sometimes at great human cost, will be passed on and will be able to benefit the next generation.”
X X X X X
Q: “Thank you very much, Your Excellency, I very much appreciate your encouraging speech. I used to live in Singapore. I really appreciate Singapore and love Singapore. Let me ask you one thing about China. People know China is very important, I agree with you but at the same time, I have a big concern about China’s expansion to the Pacific. China has started saying that not only Okinawa, not only Senkaku, but also Okinawa is under dispute. And also, China proposed to the United States, ‘Let’s divide the Pacific Ocean – East side must belong to the US, west side belongs to China’. For that matter, I am saying that we need to cooperate with each other, with ASEAN, India, Korea and Russia to prevent China from expanding to the Pacific. So close enclosure against China may be necessary. Containment may not be, a bit too strong to do that, but close enclosure against China may be necessary to prevent such aggression. Thank you very much.”
主持人问了个傻X的问题,就是对抗中国。

PM: “Well, Singapore is good friends with Japan. Singapore is also good friends with China. So I do not think it is wise for me in Tokyo to criticize China, or anywhere publicly to criticize China. I think that every country in the region benefits from China’s prosperity and progress; hopes to participate in it and hopes to cultivate good relations with China.
新加坡是日本的朋友,但是新加坡也是中国的朋友。所以我觉得身在东京而批评中国的话,这不是一个明智的做法。无论在何地,公然抨击中国都不是明智的选择。我的看法是亚洲整个地区,都从中国的发展中获得了益处,都希望能和中国保持良好的关系。

Certainly all the ASEAN countries do so and I believe even amongst the Japanese people and Japanese companies, many would like to take advantage of the huge market and huge opportunities which China offers.Therefore, we have to work with China and China itself has to see in its own interest to develop in a peaceful way which is not threatening to its neighbors and which enables it to integrate into the global economy. I think their leaders understand this. You watch what they say to themselves. They often remind themselves that it is necessary for China to be a benign power and not to repeat the mistakes of previous powers which have tried to succeed through force of arms. And some years ago, they had a television series entitled ‘The Rise of Great Powers’ and they listed all the countries, all the great powers, over the last several centuries, starting from the Portuguese, the Spanish, the Dutch, the British, the Americans, the Russians, the Japanese and showing the history of how they succeeded and when they went (to) try for expansion, it did not work. So I think at some level, they understand this. And certainly, if they are taking a long-term approach, they will make this calculation that whether it is the Senkakus, whether it is the South China Sea, what you gain on the Senkakus or the South China Sea, but you lose in terms of your broader reputation and standing in the world, you have to make that calculation very carefully.(因此,我们需要和中国合作,也需要中国自己的努力,来确保中国在为自己争取利益和发展的同时,采取和平而不是威胁性的方式,融入世界经济的格局。我认为中国的领导人对此了如指掌。你可以看看他们的领导人平时的讲话,他们时刻提醒自己:要让中国成为一个令人尊敬的大国,不要犯历史上过于崇尚武力的国家所犯下的错误。几年前,中国有个热播的节目,叫“大国崛起”。中国人列举了很多历史上的强势国家,从葡萄牙,西班牙开始,到荷兰,英国,到美国,苏联和日本,展示这些国家尝试扩张而失足的历史。所以我认为,中国领导人明白这些国家的得与失在哪里。他们如果从长远看,应该会仔细考虑的,无论是钓鱼岛,还是南中国海,从这些地方的所得,与国际关系上的所失,他们会自己斟酌。

So I will be very careful about saying, ‘let us make a friendship amongst all the countries which are frightened of China’. I do not think that is a constructive and helpful approach. I think let us all make friends and develop constructive relations with one another in a multi-dimensional way. Not all links in Asia are centred on China, we also have cooperations between Japan and Asean, between Japan and America, between India and countries in East Asia, I see Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is visiting Japan soon. And also with the United States, which wants to make good relations with China and does not see a division in the Pacific Ocean between the two. So I would be very careful about these over-simplifications and maintain a constructive approach, encourage a constructive approach, so that we do not by our words and actions bring about the outcome we do not want. We take this position consistently. We tell this to the Japanese, we tell this to the Americans, we tell this to the Chinese. Last year, I visited Beijing. I made a speech at the Central Party School, where they send the senior cadres for training, and I explained to the audience in Mandarin why I felt that China’s wisest policy was to maintain their position of restraint and demonstrate, not just by words but also by its actions. That it works by international norms, that there is room in its international relations for win-win partnerships and relationships of mutual respect and equality. And I think the audience took my point.”
所以我个人对于“联合起来所有惧怕中国的人”这类言论是非常警觉的,我不认为这种方法有任何建设性或好处。我还是坚持多边合作的关系是最好的。并不是所有国家都是以中国为中心,事实上亚洲的关系是多样的,比如东盟和日本的关系,日本和美国的关系,印度和东亚的关系。就在这几天,Manmohan Singh 总理将会访问日本,随后会去美国。而美国恰恰是想推进和中国的关系,而不是把一个太平洋分成两半。因此,我时刻提醒自己不要把关系简单化,而是要向有建设性的方向努力,不要让我们的所作所为造成我们不想看到的结果。这也是我长久以来一直坚持的。我向日本人这样说,我向美国人也是这样说,我和中国人同样阐述我的想法。去年我去北京,参观了中央党校。。。


我是对某报不满,
因为原文”但是我认为你们(指日本)和其他国家还没有达成和解。你们和中国的关系差的太远,和韩国也一样(nowhere from that point)。所以一旦提到历史问题,无论是慰安妇,侵略历史,还是道歉或者不道歉,当然你们有你们选择的权利,但是你们需要考虑你们的行为是否对于周边国家关系有利,是不是对于你们也是最重要的事情。(我说了这么多,当然)选择权在你们“,是对日本说的,
变成了这种翻译“他一方面在拜会安倍晋三首相时表明了支持“村山谈话”的态度,一方面公开表示“国家要往前看”,“若你不断旧事重提,不管是慰安妇的议题、侵略的议题、道歉与否的议题,当然这是你的权力,但是也必须思考这对你和其他亚洲国家的关系有没有帮助。”好像中国不要婆婆妈妈的提了”旧事重提“。


明明是对日本说的,成了中国了,主语换掉了。

举例:
I think with other countries in Asia, you have not reached that point。意思是你们日本和其他国家的关系差远了(这里是指着日本说的)。加上 it is your prerogative to do so, but you have to consider whether this will be helpful in the context of your relations with other Asian countries and whether it is the most important thing you want to do. that is for Japan to decide. 当然你们(日本)有你们选择的权利,但是你们需要考虑你们的行为是否对于周边国家关系有利,是不是对于你们也是最重要的事情。

如果翻译成I think for other countries in Asia, you have not reached that point。你们亚洲其他国家之间的关系差远了(比如中国,旧事重提闹哪样)。差了一个字,直接就理解为对亚洲国家(包括中国)指三道四了。




同时52楼的兄弟给我提了个醒,如果真要诛心李显龙的话,不能忘了李显龙是在日本做的演讲,对日本的历史问题导致中日韩日关系nowhere from that point,日本的不作为要负起责任, 怎么做是你们的权利,但是“你们需要考虑你们的行为是否对于周边国家关系有利”。 我个人对李没什么褒贬。我只是想说李在国际关系处理上还是比较守规矩,第一不说过头的话,“新加坡是日本的朋友,但是新加坡也是中国的朋友。所以我觉得身在东京而批评中国的话,这不是一个明智的做法。无论在何地,公然抨击中国都不是明智的选择“是意见的大前提。第二,观点强烈的时候,也能举出实例,日本和新加坡的历史,日本战后在和新加坡多方面的合作,都提到了,但是日本和中国做了什么,日本和韩国做了什么,由此引出日本要对nowhere from that point这种关系好好想想。这就是抨击,也有有力的证据。

还有不能忘了李不是中国的总理,国际关系都是你来我往互相取利。李对中对日在南海问题上的作为都表达意见当然有他自己的利益,当然也必须表达看法,政治家怎么能没有看法。中国显然也能对李的意见表达不同看法。但是看法不能建立在乱换主语和断章取义之上,这不是看法,这是”不恰当言论“。


翻译有问题,还说别人意见有问题?这里2个错误,首先翻译的对不对是你自己的事情,不是别人说错了;其次意见就意见,你问别人意见,别人说了,别人要是不说你高兴吗。意见有对错,还是有合理与不合理?

站在中国人立场上,可能觉得意见有问题,但是李又不是中国总理,凭什么不能说几句为新加坡讨利益的话?中国09哥本哈根不也是指着欧洲说“我们已经做了,你们还没有做,你们有什么理由对我说三道四?” 这种话很提气,但也表明作为政治家,政治上已经没有达成任何建设性条约,没路可走了。


还有些怪现象,就是只看到

“新加坡是日本的朋友,但是新加坡也是中国的朋友。所以我觉得身在东京而批评中国的话,这不是一个明智的做法。无论在何地,公然抨击中国都不是明智的选择。我的看法是亚洲整个地区,都从中国的发展中获得了益处,都希望能和中国保持良好的关系...因此,我们需要和中国合作,也需要中国自己的努力,来确保中国在为自己争取利益和发展的同时,采取和平而不是威胁性的方式,融入世界经济的格局。我认为中国的领导人对此了如指掌。你可以看看他们的领导人平时的讲话,他们时刻提醒自己:要让中国成为一个令人尊敬的大国,不要犯历史上过于崇尚武力的国家所犯下的错误。几年前,中国有个热播的节目,叫“大国崛起”。中国人列举了很多历史上的强势国家,从葡萄牙,西班牙开始,到荷兰,英国,到美国,苏联和日本,展示这些国家尝试扩张而失足的历史。所以我认为,中国领导人明白这些国家的得与失在哪里。他们如果从长远看,应该会仔细考虑的,无论是钓鱼岛,还是南中国海,从这些地方的所得,与国际关系上的所失,他们会自己斟酌. 所以我个人对于“联合起来所有惧怕中国的人”这类言论是非常警觉的,我不认为这种方法有任何建设性或好处。我还是坚持多边合作的关系是最好的。并不是所有国家都是以中国为中心,事实上亚洲的关系是多样的,比如东盟和日本的关系,日本和美国的关系,印度和东亚的关系。就在这几天,Manmohan Singh 总理将会访问日本,随后会去美国。而美国恰恰是想推进和中国的关系,而不是把一个太平洋分成两半。因此,我时刻提醒自己不要把关系简单化,而是要向有建设性的方向努力,不要让我们的所作所为造成我们不想看到的结果。这也是我长久以来一直坚持的。我向日本人这样说,我向美国人也是这样说,我和中国人同样阐述我的想法。去年我去北京,参观了中央党校。。。”

这一大段话的,红字的部分?

个人理解,欢迎板砖。

I think their leaders understand this. You watch what they say to themselves. They often remind themselves that it is necessary for China to be a benign power and not to repeat the mistakes of previous powers which have tried to succeed through force of arms. And some years ago, they had a television series entitled ‘The Rise of Great Powers’ and they listed all the countries, all the great powers, over the last several centuries, starting from the Portuguese, the Spanish, the Dutch, the British, the Americans, the Russians, the Japanese and showing the history of how they succeeded and when they went (to) try for expansion, it did not work. So I think at some level, they understand this. And certainly, if they are taking a long-term approach, they will make this calculation that whether it is the Senkakus, whether it is the South China Sea, what you gain on the Senkakus or the South China Sea, but you lose in terms of your broader reputation and standing in the world, you have to make that calculation very carefully.
我认为中国的领导人对此了如指掌。你可以看看他们的领导人平时的讲话,他们时刻提醒自己:要让中国成为一个令人尊敬的大国,不要犯历史上过于崇尚武力的国家所犯下的错误。几年前,中国有个热播的节目,叫“大国崛起”。中国人列举了很多历史上的强势国家,从葡萄牙,西班牙开始,到荷兰,英国,到美国,苏联和日本,展示这些国家尝试扩张而失足的历史。所以我认为,中国领导人明白这些国家的得与失在哪里。可以肯定的是(我补上翻译啦),他们如果从长远看,应该会仔细考虑的,无论是钓鱼岛,还是南中国海,从这些地方的所得,与国际关系上的所失(国际地位啊,声誉啊,这个也具体翻译啦),他们会自己斟酌。

不要忘了这段话是对日本说的。简言之就是中国自有考虑。在多说就是中国是理性的国家,不该操的心不用操。

同时,从中国角度考虑,如果中国拿到岛屿,就不会有损失吗?所以李的陈述”无论是钓鱼岛,还是南中国海,从这些地方的所得,与国际关系上的所失,声誉啊 地位啊”没什么新意,就是阐述国际关系的正常现象。但是中国人会“他们会自己斟酌”的。为什么?因为“我认为中国的领导人对此了如指掌。你可以看看他们的领导人平时的讲话。。。”甚至自己打了保票“And certainly“。

这种certainly的承诺没什么意义,李又不会对中国行为负责。李可能是委婉表达自己对中国的看法,也可能是告诉日本”我知道中国,他们会考虑的,你看过大国崛起吗,没看就看看“。但问题是,这是假设。李没有在原文说,某些媒体就开始脑补了,就开始爱国主义宣判了。



编辑下,不能针对某报,对事不对报哈。

只看一句话不看整段意思的喷子,楼主均截取整段要求喷子翻译,到时候收作业。继续浏览的人不妨看下谁给意见的同时有例证,还是一句话新闻大字报。本帖讨论的原文如何理解翻译,某报哗众取宠的翻译对国际关系是否有“建设性”的作用。


主持人问了个历史方面的问题,以下是李显龙回答
PM: “ World War II was a massive event for Japan…After the war, it took a long time for relations between Japan and its neighbors to come back to normal because there was not a reconciliation process that happened in Europe. In Europe, the Germans, they repudiated the Nazis, they repudiated Adolf Hitler. Every school child grows up knowing that that was a bad period, those were bad people. Germany was now into a new phase. And if you read the French textbooks or the German textbooks, you will get more or less the same story of the Second World War. Maybe not be exactly the same perspective, but basically the same story. It did not happen in Asia between Japan and its neighbours. Many years have passed. As I said just now, the strategic situation is completely different. The populations have grown up. It is a new generation. So it is not the same situation as before. In the case of Singapore, the first generation who lived through the war and the very difficult conditions when the Japanese invaded Singapore, they will never forget the experience. Every year on the anniversary of the fall of Singapore, 15th February, the old people go there to remember the relatives who died and they weep. So they will never forget. My parent’s generation will never forget until the day they die because they lived through that, they know what it was. My generation did not live through that, but we know from our fathers what it was like and their stories. If my father had been taken away, he would not have come back and I would not be here today. My uncle, my mother’s brother, was taken away and never came back. So these memories move some. My children’s generation, they don’t have those memories, not even second-hand; maybe third-hand. So we have moved on. And as a society, we have moved on. In the 1960s, there was a period when we discovered the mass graves where the civilians had been massacred in Singapore. There was an outcry. I remember the day because I saw them coming to dig up the graves next to my school. There was a big outcry, I think the Japanese government made an apology, donated some money and we built a memorial. So between Singapore and Japan, the chapter is closed. Officially, we have moved on. And we have very good relations between Singapore and Japan since then - investments, trade, cooperation in many areas. I think with other countries in Asia, you have not reached that point. Certainly with China, you are nowhere near that point. With Korea, you have not reached that point. So if you reopen the old subjects - whether it is comfort women, whether it is aggression, whether there is an apology or no apology – well, it is your prerogative to do so, but you have to consider whether this will be helpful in the context of your relations with other Asian countries and whether it is the most important thing you want to do. But that is for Japan to decide.”

(之前李显龙回忆了自己的家庭,包括祖辈对侵略历史的记忆,谈到了德国和欧洲的例子,即欧洲的和解。最后谈到新加坡和日本和解了,因为日本Japanese government made an apology, donated some money and we built a memorial,日本政府发表了道歉,捐了钱,从此日本和新加坡展开了多方面的的合作,接下来的话意思如下)但是我认为你们(指日本)和其他国家还没有达成和解。你们和中国的关系差的太远,和韩国也一样(nowhere from that point)。所以一旦提到历史问题,无论是慰安妇,侵略历史,还是道歉或者不道歉,当然你们有你们选择的权利,但是你们需要考虑你们的行为是否对于周边国家关系有利,是不是对于你们也是最重要的事情。当然,选择权在你们日本人(译者注:国际关系原则,表达意见,但不干涉内政)。


接下来有关于南海的陈述:
PM: “Well, we try to do that. Every generation grows up in a new environment and new circumstances. The old generation always feels ‘we want them to remember what we remember’, but the young generation did not live through those and they will have to form their own key memories. But at the same time, we hope that the most salient and relevant parts of what the older generation has learnt and seen, sometimes at great human cost, will be passed on and will be able to benefit the next generation.”
X X X X X
Q: “Thank you very much, Your Excellency, I very much appreciate your encouraging speech. I used to live in Singapore. I really appreciate Singapore and love Singapore. Let me ask you one thing about China. People know China is very important, I agree with you but at the same time, I have a big concern about China’s expansion to the Pacific. China has started saying that not only Okinawa, not only Senkaku, but also Okinawa is under dispute. And also, China proposed to the United States, ‘Let’s divide the Pacific Ocean – East side must belong to the US, west side belongs to China’. For that matter, I am saying that we need to cooperate with each other, with ASEAN, India, Korea and Russia to prevent China from expanding to the Pacific. So close enclosure against China may be necessary. Containment may not be, a bit too strong to do that, but close enclosure against China may be necessary to prevent such aggression. Thank you very much.”
主持人问了个傻X的问题,就是对抗中国。

PM: “Well, Singapore is good friends with Japan. Singapore is also good friends with China. So I do not think it is wise for me in Tokyo to criticize China, or anywhere publicly to criticize China. I think that every country in the region benefits from China’s prosperity and progress; hopes to participate in it and hopes to cultivate good relations with China.
新加坡是日本的朋友,但是新加坡也是中国的朋友。所以我觉得身在东京而批评中国的话,这不是一个明智的做法。无论在何地,公然抨击中国都不是明智的选择。我的看法是亚洲整个地区,都从中国的发展中获得了益处,都希望能和中国保持良好的关系。

Certainly all the ASEAN countries do so and I believe even amongst the Japanese people and Japanese companies, many would like to take advantage of the huge market and huge opportunities which China offers.Therefore, we have to work with China and China itself has to see in its own interest to develop in a peaceful way which is not threatening to its neighbors and which enables it to integrate into the global economy. I think their leaders understand this. You watch what they say to themselves. They often remind themselves that it is necessary for China to be a benign power and not to repeat the mistakes of previous powers which have tried to succeed through force of arms. And some years ago, they had a television series entitled ‘The Rise of Great Powers’ and they listed all the countries, all the great powers, over the last several centuries, starting from the Portuguese, the Spanish, the Dutch, the British, the Americans, the Russians, the Japanese and showing the history of how they succeeded and when they went (to) try for expansion, it did not work. So I think at some level, they understand this. And certainly, if they are taking a long-term approach, they will make this calculation that whether it is the Senkakus, whether it is the South China Sea, what you gain on the Senkakus or the South China Sea, but you lose in terms of your broader reputation and standing in the world, you have to make that calculation very carefully.(因此,我们需要和中国合作,也需要中国自己的努力,来确保中国在为自己争取利益和发展的同时,采取和平而不是威胁性的方式,融入世界经济的格局。我认为中国的领导人对此了如指掌。你可以看看他们的领导人平时的讲话,他们时刻提醒自己:要让中国成为一个令人尊敬的大国,不要犯历史上过于崇尚武力的国家所犯下的错误。几年前,中国有个热播的节目,叫“大国崛起”。中国人列举了很多历史上的强势国家,从葡萄牙,西班牙开始,到荷兰,英国,到美国,苏联和日本,展示这些国家尝试扩张而失足的历史。所以我认为,中国领导人明白这些国家的得与失在哪里。他们如果从长远看,应该会仔细考虑的,无论是钓鱼岛,还是南中国海,从这些地方的所得,与国际关系上的所失,他们会自己斟酌。

So I will be very careful about saying, ‘let us make a friendship amongst all the countries which are frightened of China’. I do not think that is a constructive and helpful approach. I think let us all make friends and develop constructive relations with one another in a multi-dimensional way. Not all links in Asia are centred on China, we also have cooperations between Japan and Asean, between Japan and America, between India and countries in East Asia, I see Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is visiting Japan soon. And also with the United States, which wants to make good relations with China and does not see a division in the Pacific Ocean between the two. So I would be very careful about these over-simplifications and maintain a constructive approach, encourage a constructive approach, so that we do not by our words and actions bring about the outcome we do not want. We take this position consistently. We tell this to the Japanese, we tell this to the Americans, we tell this to the Chinese. Last year, I visited Beijing. I made a speech at the Central Party School, where they send the senior cadres for training, and I explained to the audience in Mandarin why I felt that China’s wisest policy was to maintain their position of restraint and demonstrate, not just by words but also by its actions. That it works by international norms, that there is room in its international relations for win-win partnerships and relationships of mutual respect and equality. And I think the audience took my point.”
所以我个人对于“联合起来所有惧怕中国的人”这类言论是非常警觉的,我不认为这种方法有任何建设性或好处。我还是坚持多边合作的关系是最好的。并不是所有国家都是以中国为中心,事实上亚洲的关系是多样的,比如东盟和日本的关系,日本和美国的关系,印度和东亚的关系。就在这几天,Manmohan Singh 总理将会访问日本,随后会去美国。而美国恰恰是想推进和中国的关系,而不是把一个太平洋分成两半。因此,我时刻提醒自己不要把关系简单化,而是要向有建设性的方向努力,不要让我们的所作所为造成我们不想看到的结果。这也是我长久以来一直坚持的。我向日本人这样说,我向美国人也是这样说,我和中国人同样阐述我的想法。去年我去北京,参观了中央党校。。。


我是对某报不满,
因为原文”但是我认为你们(指日本)和其他国家还没有达成和解。你们和中国的关系差的太远,和韩国也一样(nowhere from that point)。所以一旦提到历史问题,无论是慰安妇,侵略历史,还是道歉或者不道歉,当然你们有你们选择的权利,但是你们需要考虑你们的行为是否对于周边国家关系有利,是不是对于你们也是最重要的事情。(我说了这么多,当然)选择权在你们“,是对日本说的,
变成了这种翻译“他一方面在拜会安倍晋三首相时表明了支持“村山谈话”的态度,一方面公开表示“国家要往前看”,“若你不断旧事重提,不管是慰安妇的议题、侵略的议题、道歉与否的议题,当然这是你的权力,但是也必须思考这对你和其他亚洲国家的关系有没有帮助。”好像中国不要婆婆妈妈的提了”旧事重提“。


明明是对日本说的,成了中国了,主语换掉了。

举例:
I think with other countries in Asia, you have not reached that point。意思是你们日本和其他国家的关系差远了(这里是指着日本说的)。加上 it is your prerogative to do so, but you have to consider whether this will be helpful in the context of your relations with other Asian countries and whether it is the most important thing you want to do. that is for Japan to decide. 当然你们(日本)有你们选择的权利,但是你们需要考虑你们的行为是否对于周边国家关系有利,是不是对于你们也是最重要的事情。

如果翻译成I think for other countries in Asia, you have not reached that point。你们亚洲其他国家之间的关系差远了(比如中国,旧事重提闹哪样)。差了一个字,直接就理解为对亚洲国家(包括中国)指三道四了。




同时52楼的兄弟给我提了个醒,如果真要诛心李显龙的话,不能忘了李显龙是在日本做的演讲,对日本的历史问题导致中日韩日关系nowhere from that point,日本的不作为要负起责任, 怎么做是你们的权利,但是“你们需要考虑你们的行为是否对于周边国家关系有利”。 我个人对李没什么褒贬。我只是想说李在国际关系处理上还是比较守规矩,第一不说过头的话,“新加坡是日本的朋友,但是新加坡也是中国的朋友。所以我觉得身在东京而批评中国的话,这不是一个明智的做法。无论在何地,公然抨击中国都不是明智的选择“是意见的大前提。第二,观点强烈的时候,也能举出实例,日本和新加坡的历史,日本战后在和新加坡多方面的合作,都提到了,但是日本和中国做了什么,日本和韩国做了什么,由此引出日本要对nowhere from that point这种关系好好想想。这就是抨击,也有有力的证据。

还有不能忘了李不是中国的总理,国际关系都是你来我往互相取利。李对中对日在南海问题上的作为都表达意见当然有他自己的利益,当然也必须表达看法,政治家怎么能没有看法。中国显然也能对李的意见表达不同看法。但是看法不能建立在乱换主语和断章取义之上,这不是看法,这是”不恰当言论“。


翻译有问题,还说别人意见有问题?这里2个错误,首先翻译的对不对是你自己的事情,不是别人说错了;其次意见就意见,你问别人意见,别人说了,别人要是不说你高兴吗。意见有对错,还是有合理与不合理?

站在中国人立场上,可能觉得意见有问题,但是李又不是中国总理,凭什么不能说几句为新加坡讨利益的话?中国09哥本哈根不也是指着欧洲说“我们已经做了,你们还没有做,你们有什么理由对我说三道四?” 这种话很提气,但也表明作为政治家,政治上已经没有达成任何建设性条约,没路可走了。


还有些怪现象,就是只看到

“新加坡是日本的朋友,但是新加坡也是中国的朋友。所以我觉得身在东京而批评中国的话,这不是一个明智的做法。无论在何地,公然抨击中国都不是明智的选择。我的看法是亚洲整个地区,都从中国的发展中获得了益处,都希望能和中国保持良好的关系...因此,我们需要和中国合作,也需要中国自己的努力,来确保中国在为自己争取利益和发展的同时,采取和平而不是威胁性的方式,融入世界经济的格局。我认为中国的领导人对此了如指掌。你可以看看他们的领导人平时的讲话,他们时刻提醒自己:要让中国成为一个令人尊敬的大国,不要犯历史上过于崇尚武力的国家所犯下的错误。几年前,中国有个热播的节目,叫“大国崛起”。中国人列举了很多历史上的强势国家,从葡萄牙,西班牙开始,到荷兰,英国,到美国,苏联和日本,展示这些国家尝试扩张而失足的历史。所以我认为,中国领导人明白这些国家的得与失在哪里。他们如果从长远看,应该会仔细考虑的,无论是钓鱼岛,还是南中国海,从这些地方的所得,与国际关系上的所失,他们会自己斟酌. 所以我个人对于“联合起来所有惧怕中国的人”这类言论是非常警觉的,我不认为这种方法有任何建设性或好处。我还是坚持多边合作的关系是最好的。并不是所有国家都是以中国为中心,事实上亚洲的关系是多样的,比如东盟和日本的关系,日本和美国的关系,印度和东亚的关系。就在这几天,Manmohan Singh 总理将会访问日本,随后会去美国。而美国恰恰是想推进和中国的关系,而不是把一个太平洋分成两半。因此,我时刻提醒自己不要把关系简单化,而是要向有建设性的方向努力,不要让我们的所作所为造成我们不想看到的结果。这也是我长久以来一直坚持的。我向日本人这样说,我向美国人也是这样说,我和中国人同样阐述我的想法。去年我去北京,参观了中央党校。。。”

这一大段话的,红字的部分?

个人理解,欢迎板砖。

I think their leaders understand this. You watch what they say to themselves. They often remind themselves that it is necessary for China to be a benign power and not to repeat the mistakes of previous powers which have tried to succeed through force of arms. And some years ago, they had a television series entitled ‘The Rise of Great Powers’ and they listed all the countries, all the great powers, over the last several centuries, starting from the Portuguese, the Spanish, the Dutch, the British, the Americans, the Russians, the Japanese and showing the history of how they succeeded and when they went (to) try for expansion, it did not work. So I think at some level, they understand this. And certainly, if they are taking a long-term approach, they will make this calculation that whether it is the Senkakus, whether it is the South China Sea, what you gain on the Senkakus or the South China Sea, but you lose in terms of your broader reputation and standing in the world, you have to make that calculation very carefully.
我认为中国的领导人对此了如指掌。你可以看看他们的领导人平时的讲话,他们时刻提醒自己:要让中国成为一个令人尊敬的大国,不要犯历史上过于崇尚武力的国家所犯下的错误。几年前,中国有个热播的节目,叫“大国崛起”。中国人列举了很多历史上的强势国家,从葡萄牙,西班牙开始,到荷兰,英国,到美国,苏联和日本,展示这些国家尝试扩张而失足的历史。所以我认为,中国领导人明白这些国家的得与失在哪里。可以肯定的是(我补上翻译啦),他们如果从长远看,应该会仔细考虑的,无论是钓鱼岛,还是南中国海,从这些地方的所得,与国际关系上的所失(国际地位啊,声誉啊,这个也具体翻译啦),他们会自己斟酌。

不要忘了这段话是对日本说的。简言之就是中国自有考虑。在多说就是中国是理性的国家,不该操的心不用操。

同时,从中国角度考虑,如果中国拿到岛屿,就不会有损失吗?所以李的陈述”无论是钓鱼岛,还是南中国海,从这些地方的所得,与国际关系上的所失,声誉啊 地位啊”没什么新意,就是阐述国际关系的正常现象。但是中国人会“他们会自己斟酌”的。为什么?因为“我认为中国的领导人对此了如指掌。你可以看看他们的领导人平时的讲话。。。”甚至自己打了保票“And certainly“。

这种certainly的承诺没什么意义,李又不会对中国行为负责。李可能是委婉表达自己对中国的看法,也可能是告诉日本”我知道中国,他们会考虑的,你看过大国崛起吗,没看就看看“。但问题是,这是假设。李没有在原文说,某些媒体就开始脑补了,就开始爱国主义宣判了。



荒唐可笑!

楼主的翻译是完全错误的!

什么叫“无论是钓鱼岛,还是南中国海,从这些地方的所得,与国际关系上的所失”?

楼主的翻译完全不符合英文原文的意思!

And certainly, if they are taking a long-term approach, they will make this calculation that whether it is the Senkakus, whether it is the South China Sea, what you gain on the Senkakus or the South China Sea, but you lose in terms of your broader reputation and standing in the world如果中国拿到钓鱼岛或者南中国海,中国就会失去在周边和世界上的名声与地位!), you have to make that calculation very carefully.

环球时报的翻译才符合李家坡的原意!

荒唐可笑!

楼主的翻译是完全错误的!

什么叫“无论是钓鱼岛,还是南中国海,从这些地方的所得,与国际关系上的所失”?

楼主的翻译完全不符合英文原文的意思!

And certainly, if they are taking a long-term approach, they will make this calculation that whether it is the Senkakus, whether it is the South China Sea, what you gain on the Senkakus or the South China Sea, but you lose in terms of your broader reputation and standing in the world如果中国拿到钓鱼岛或者南中国海,中国就会失去在周边和世界上的名声与地位!), you have to make that calculation very carefully.

环球时报的翻译才符合李家坡的原意!
我还把环球那段给转微博了,这个节奏是叫什么以讹传讹以鸭传鸭啊,英文不好也没耐心扒真相就悲剧了
铁蓑 发表于 2013-8-23 21:23
我还把环球那段给转微博了,这个节奏是叫什么以讹传讹以鸭传鸭啊,英文不好也没耐心扒真相就悲剧了
环球的翻译没错,楼主的翻译是错误的,楼主的翻译完全不符合英文的原意!
LZ的英语是在李家坡学的吧???


看好了:
And certainly,可以肯定的是, if they are taking a long-term approach,(如果中国领导人做长远打算的话) they will make this calculation that whether it is the Senkakus, whether it is the South China Sea, what you gain on the Senkakus or the South China Sea, but you lose in terms of your broader reputation and standing in the world(如果句子太长,你可以分开读,whether...whether是个假设并列,你不要断章取义认为是“如果中国拿到钓鱼岛或者南中国海,中国就会失去在周边和世界上的地位”那是后面的句子,此句是“无论是钓鱼岛,还是南中国海,从这些地方的所得,与国际关系上的所失,他们会自己斟酌者。。。注意看是”他们会自己斟酌“,本段的意思是”中国领导人会考虑到的“,因为前面说了,是基于李对中国的理解,你们日本人不要把中国人想的太简单,因为:
You watch what they say to themselves. They often remind themselves that it is necessary for China to be a benign power and not to repeat the mistakes of previous powers which have tried to succeed through force of arms. And some years ago, they had a television series entitled ‘The Rise of Great Powers’ and they listed all the countries, all the great powers, over the last several centuries, starting from the Portuguese, the Spanish, the Dutch, the British, the Americans, the Russians, the Japanese and showing the history of how they succeeded and when they went (to) try for expansion, it did not work. So I think at some level, they understand this.
我认为中国的领导人对此了如指掌。你可以看看他们的领导人平时的讲话,他们时刻提醒自己:要让中国成为一个令人尊敬的大国,不要犯历史上过于崇尚武力的国家所犯下的错误。几年前,中国有个热播的节目,叫“大国崛起”。中国人列举了很多历史上的强势国家,从葡萄牙,西班牙开始,到荷兰,英国,到美国,苏联和日本,展示这些国家尝试扩张而失足的历史。所以我认为,中国领导人明白这些国家的得与失在哪里。

请你看上下文,不要单独把某个句子从原文独立出来。


看好了:
And certainly,可以肯定的是, if they are taking a long-term approach,(如果中国领导人做长远打算的话) they will make this calculation that whether it is the Senkakus, whether it is the South China Sea, what you gain on the Senkakus or the South China Sea, but you lose in terms of your broader reputation and standing in the world(如果句子太长,你可以分开读,whether...whether是个假设并列,你不要断章取义认为是“如果中国拿到钓鱼岛或者南中国海,中国就会失去在周边和世界上的地位”那是后面的句子,此句是“无论是钓鱼岛,还是南中国海,从这些地方的所得,与国际关系上的所失,他们会自己斟酌者。。。注意看是”他们会自己斟酌“,本段的意思是”中国领导人会考虑到的“,因为前面说了,是基于李对中国的理解,你们日本人不要把中国人想的太简单,因为:
You watch what they say to themselves. They often remind themselves that it is necessary for China to be a benign power and not to repeat the mistakes of previous powers which have tried to succeed through force of arms. And some years ago, they had a television series entitled ‘The Rise of Great Powers’ and they listed all the countries, all the great powers, over the last several centuries, starting from the Portuguese, the Spanish, the Dutch, the British, the Americans, the Russians, the Japanese and showing the history of how they succeeded and when they went (to) try for expansion, it did not work. So I think at some level, they understand this.
我认为中国的领导人对此了如指掌。你可以看看他们的领导人平时的讲话,他们时刻提醒自己:要让中国成为一个令人尊敬的大国,不要犯历史上过于崇尚武力的国家所犯下的错误。几年前,中国有个热播的节目,叫“大国崛起”。中国人列举了很多历史上的强势国家,从葡萄牙,西班牙开始,到荷兰,英国,到美国,苏联和日本,展示这些国家尝试扩张而失足的历史。所以我认为,中国领导人明白这些国家的得与失在哪里。

请你看上下文,不要单独把某个句子从原文独立出来。

石库门 发表于 2013-8-23 21:31
看好了:
And certainly,可以肯定的是, if they are taking a long-term approach,(如果中国领导人做长 ...


那句话的意思本来就是那样,你的翻译是一种“粉饰性”翻译,把英文原来想表达的意思给“粉饰”了。

1)you lose in terms of your broader reputation and standing in the world 你怎么不敢翻译出来?

2)what you gain on, 这里的 gain 明明是夺取的意思,也就是说“中国夺取钓鱼岛或者南中国海”,你却“粉饰性”翻译成“所得”,意欲何为?

{:soso_e113:}


石库门 发表于 2013-8-23 21:31
看好了:
And certainly,可以肯定的是, if they are taking a long-term approach,(如果中国领导人做长 ...


那句话的意思本来就是那样,你的翻译是一种“粉饰性”翻译,把英文原来想表达的意思给“粉饰”了。

1)you lose in terms of your broader reputation and standing in the world 你怎么不敢翻译出来?

2)what you gain on, 这里的 gain 明明是夺取的意思,也就是说“中国夺取钓鱼岛或者南中国海”,你却“粉饰性”翻译成“所得”,意欲何为?

{:soso_e113:}

啥都不用看,就看他用词就行了,亏你还看原文.

告诉你一个捷径吧,搂主,要想每天看50篇英文专业文献而不费劲,最大的秘诀就是抓关键词.那么大的Senkakus你看不见阿,用这个词还不能说明新加坡立场么?什么脑袋阿,如果支持中国立场,第一个会做的就是尊重中国领土命名权,应该用Diao Yu islands或者用Diaoyu Islands

服了,学习都学堵了吧.你要是准备出国靠GRE还是省省吧,阅读时间肯定不够的.
无论李显龙的话如何翻译,追究其内涵的意思,不就是环球时报说的那个意思

李显龙要中国领导人考虑的,无非就是得领土失国际地位,要么是国际上不失分但丢失领土
路线都要混乱了,E文不好的人伤不起啊
石库门 发表于 2013-8-23 21:31
看好了:
And certainly,可以肯定的是, if they are taking a long-term approach,(如果中国领导人做长 ...
还狡辩,作为前辈真的看不下去了.
楼主是在批环球翻译,还是为李家坡洗地。李家坡本意是什么大家都清楚
搂主这帖还是删了吧,有卖萌嫌疑阿.


they(中国领导人) will (将会)make(做) this calculation(考虑、计算)                       那么中国领导人考虑什么呢

that whether it is the Senkakus, whether it is the South China Sea, (无论是钓鱼岛,还是在南中国海 温良恭捡让你把这部分遗漏了, whether whether是或者 或者的意思, 你看我翻译成无论还是 还算贴切吧)
what you gain on the Senkakus or the South China Sea, (在钓鱼岛或者南海问题上的所得)
but you lose in terms of your broader reputation and standing in the world (在国际关系上的所失)

不要忘了词句是接在”中国领导人会做这种考虑“后面的
不要忘了这句是在”我认为中国的领导人对此了如指掌。你可以看看他们的领导人平时的讲话,他们时刻提醒自己:要让中国成为一个令人尊敬的大国,不要犯历史上过于崇尚武力的国家所犯下的错误。几年前,中国有个热播的节目,叫“大国崛起”。中国人列举了很多历史上的强势国家,从葡萄牙,西班牙开始,到荷兰,英国,到美国,苏联和日本,展示这些国家尝试扩张而失足的历史。所以我认为,中国领导人明白这些国家的得与失在哪里。”这一段后面的。

这段 是接在“新加坡是日本的朋友,但是新加坡也是中国的朋友。所以我觉得身在东京而批评中国的话,这不是一个明智的做法。无论在何地,公然抨击中国都不是明智的选择。我的看法是亚洲整个地区,都从中国的发展中获得了益处,都希望能和中国保持良好的关系。”这个大前提下的。“

同时,就整片文章来说,别人提出自己的意见有错吗,中国小气到谁都不能提点意见了吗。我看没有,但是某些断章取义的媒体有问题,敢不敢多翻译几个字。



they(中国领导人) will (将会)make(做) this calculation(考虑、计算)                       那么中国领导人考虑什么呢

that whether it is the Senkakus, whether it is the South China Sea, (无论是钓鱼岛,还是在南中国海 温良恭捡让你把这部分遗漏了, whether whether是或者 或者的意思, 你看我翻译成无论还是 还算贴切吧)
what you gain on the Senkakus or the South China Sea, (在钓鱼岛或者南海问题上的所得)
but you lose in terms of your broader reputation and standing in the world (在国际关系上的所失)

不要忘了词句是接在”中国领导人会做这种考虑“后面的
不要忘了这句是在”我认为中国的领导人对此了如指掌。你可以看看他们的领导人平时的讲话,他们时刻提醒自己:要让中国成为一个令人尊敬的大国,不要犯历史上过于崇尚武力的国家所犯下的错误。几年前,中国有个热播的节目,叫“大国崛起”。中国人列举了很多历史上的强势国家,从葡萄牙,西班牙开始,到荷兰,英国,到美国,苏联和日本,展示这些国家尝试扩张而失足的历史。所以我认为,中国领导人明白这些国家的得与失在哪里。”这一段后面的。

这段 是接在“新加坡是日本的朋友,但是新加坡也是中国的朋友。所以我觉得身在东京而批评中国的话,这不是一个明智的做法。无论在何地,公然抨击中国都不是明智的选择。我的看法是亚洲整个地区,都从中国的发展中获得了益处,都希望能和中国保持良好的关系。”这个大前提下的。“

同时,就整片文章来说,别人提出自己的意见有错吗,中国小气到谁都不能提点意见了吗。我看没有,但是某些断章取义的媒体有问题,敢不敢多翻译几个字。

就凭他使用尖阁列岛这个名称,完全能够表明他的态度了,还狡辩
话说被石库门夹了头还是会很疼的
国务顾问 发表于 2013-8-23 21:39
无论李显龙的话如何翻译,追究其内涵的意思,不就是环球时报说的那个意思

李显龙要中国领导人考虑的,无 ...
其实战略上确实有点儿混乱.不该到处乱抓,要么着手东海,要么着手南海.

着手东海的好处是,杀鸡儆猴,当然日本也不是软蛋还有美国撑腰.如果东海搞定,南海问题就像庖丁解牛,迎刃而解.如果东海搞不定,南海就会颇为难搞,但是不至于满盘皆输.

着手南海也行,各个击破,先弄菲律宾,日本那边暂时缓缓.不可处处烽火.这感觉有点像项羽当年,看起来强大,实则到处救火,毫无战略价值.

浅见而已,勿喷.
北美党表示,LZ的英文水平还需继续提高。潜台词都看不出来,还说别人造谣?
不管怎样,我都觉得要学美的,该歪曲就歪曲。
名字就能表明态度,文字狱吧。 龙就必须是long, dragon就必须死是不是。 这瓶酒叫石库门,这是什么态度?
哟,目测楼主的脸怕是要肿痛难忍,用云南白药酊吧!
打个比方,楼主养了个儿子,随他姓石库,结果有天别人把小孩接走了不肯还,说那是他家的孩子,姓朱,楼主正和姓朱的争论,有个人出来一脸和气地说,小朱不管是谁的孩子,重要的是石库桑要明白事理,要和邻里搞好关系,小朱是谁的就是谁的,小朱。。。。
楼主你估计咬死他的心都有了
无论他的原意是什么,但在这个时候提到钓鱼岛都是不合适的,在这个问题上不是他可以随意置喙的.
如果有小国给大国提的意见就是给大国立规矩,让大国出让领土换取和平,那么小国就要有付出代价的心理准备,自古就是如此。
还有北美党么,鄙人不才,鄙人仅仅考了几个证,出了几年国,在外赶走过法轮功,09年阅兵国外发过片。要不您来翻译试试。
体育老师教的英语?
这么烂的水平也敢舔着脸来发帖?
石库门 发表于 2013-8-23 21:45
they(中国领导人) will (将会)make(做) this calculation(考虑、计算)                       那么 ...
其实,lz搂主需要读一些语言学的书.你说的也许没错,但也是狡辩.这是英语的语言特点,英国人发明的语言有英国人典型的狡猾.一句话说到一半已经表明立场了,但是根据说话人对听话人表情的观察,是可能把语义表达成相反的意思的.

相似的还有日语.日语有大量的主语后置,其实也是表明日本人的狡猾.一句话说到一半已经表明立场了,但是如果发现听话人不爽,是可以把语义改过来的.

我以上说的都是,不改口的情况下的可能性.而不是一句话说完,发现对方不爽,改口说个对方爱听的.lz不知道你理解我说的话不?
石库门 发表于 2013-8-23 21:45
they(中国领导人) will (将会)make(做) this calculation(考虑、计算)                       那么 ...
这么明显的潜台词都看不出来?李显龙的言外之意就是暗示告诫中国,你们应该不会昏头到了为了得到南海和钓鱼岛失去国际地位吧?
这个时间专门注册新号上来发假翻译!

楼主贴的翻译是明显刻意掩饰过的,人家说的很明显的关键部分被楼主省略掉了。
这不是单纯的英文老师死的早的问题
其实楼主就是来拉偏架的。
石库门 发表于 2013-8-23 21:45
they(中国领导人) will (将会)make(做) this calculation(考虑、计算)                       那么 ...
至于中国媒体只不过把这个潜台词露骨的写出来的。表明的态度就是李家坡二世你指点江山个屁,用不着暗示告诫中国要怎么做。
爱咋说咋说,认真就输了
你说我是列兵,可是您也是列兵呢。不过我是Q号注册的。

所谓文不诛心,有多少文看完了原文,哪怕仅仅是翻译的绿字部分。
石库门 发表于 2013-8-23 21:50
名字就能表明态度,文字狱吧。 龙就必须是long, dragon就必须死是不是。 这瓶酒叫石库门,这是什么态度?
不是文字狱,等你每天有几十篇论文要看的时候就知道了

根本不可能看的,只是扫词,看图等等...所以看文章尤其是英文文章根本不需要读文章,读文章才是文字狱.英文文章的语句里有大量规则,这些规则根本不能表达意义,你只要从中扫出那些能表达意义的词就可以了.

搂主的学习态度倒是不错,但是误入歧途了呢,这样的话,阅读如何能快呢?
看了下,其实他虽然说的很中立的样子,但整篇文章读下来,潜台词就是,你们在要在钓鱼岛,南海问题上没完没了,会损坏你们在国际上的地位,你们看着办吧。还有他的Senkakus我就不吐槽了。
And certainly,If they are taking a long-term approach后面巴啦啦把一堆。前台词的理解就是中国如果在钓鱼岛和南海不识相点,你们就是短视,会失去国际地位。
打个比方,楼主养了个儿子,随他姓石库,结果有天别人把小孩接走了不肯还,说那是他家的孩子,姓朱,楼主正 ...
楼主羞射的说,其实,人家原本也不姓石库的,姓啥我给忘了……
这个争论有意思。
体育老师 LZ的英语是不是你教的
@体育老师
楼主的翻译不对