[译文转载] 披着羊皮的中国军事现代化(网友评论)

标题: China’’s military powerModernisation in sheep’’s clothing
披着羊皮的中国军事现代化
提示:美国"经济学人"网站博文,说美国五角大楼发表最新中国军力年度报告,喜之:中国高层无意与其它大国一争高低,一心只想搞经济,忧之:中国的军事力正在突飞猛进.如今年J-20试飞,东风--21D成军,瓦良格试水等等等等。。。美国军方忧心忡忡，担心中国些举引发地区紧张和焦虑。网民也纷纷发表看法，正文不译了，只译评论，地址是  http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2011/08/chinas-military-power?page=1
Niko Bellic wrote: Aug 26th 2011 8:28 GMT
  What else can you expect from the American’’s report other than accusations? Anyone using an aircraft a little bit more modernized than MiG 15 (1950’’s technology) and does not follow their orders, they simply consider adversary or potential enemy.
  These accusations and Chinese military modernizations are, what the Americans and more hawkish military personnels and realist scholars believe, the basis of their legitimacy for their continuing military dominance in East Asia.
  Another classic case of a Chinese idiom - your butt (where you sit, implying what careers you have) directs your brain.
  美国人除了诬告，还能做出什么好事呢？任何人只要不听美国的调遣，用的飞机只要比米格15先进一点（50年代的技术），就被诬蔑是美国的敌手或者是潜在的敌人。
  
  8834LWz57V wrote: Aug 26th 2011 8:41 GMT its so lame that the pentagon must make accusations of China’’s growing military power to legitimize their military influence in the pacific region.
  As far as i’’m concerned, China probably sits back and jokes ’’if America wants to police the world, hell let them burn their dollars.’’
  For the past 3000 years (except the last 300 years, China and India alone accounted for more than 50% of the world output. Yet during the height of China’’s power, it did not seek to expand beyound its current borders. Never in history has China invaded a nation beyound its immediate boundary even if it had the power to do so.
  So if China has it wants to remain peacefully ascent, according to history, I would believe so.
  五角大楼非要指责中国军力增长以作为挡箭牌，使其在太平洋地区的军事影响合法化，这也太无聊了。
  就我而言，美国这么干，中国很可能会悠闲地坐在那儿看笑话，说“美国人既然想当世界警察，那就让他们花光它的美元吧。”
  在过去的3000年的时间里，除了最近300年，光是中国和印度的产值就占了全世界的50%
  就算是中国力量处在鼎盛时期，也从未寻求对外扩张，在历史上即使有能力入侵他国，也从未真正这么干过。
  所以，从历史上看，如果中国是想和平崛起，我相信是真的。
  
  Niko Bellic wrote: Aug 26th 2011 8:43 GMT Americans and those who do not understand China might perceive it as dangerous.
  For those who truly know what China has been doing in the last century, we always believe China is a bigger threat to its own citizen than to any foreign country.
  美国人还有那些不了解中国的人，可能认为中国是危险分子，真正了解了中国在过去的一个世纪所作所为的人，都一直以为，中国对自己公民的威胁远大于对他国的威胁。
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  PL123 wrote: Aug 26th 2011 8:45 GMT As usual: Thief cry thief!!
  
  American is the biggest weapons exporter, dominated world market 30,3%
  Russia---No 2 world market 23 %
  Germany----No 3 world market 11%
  France---No 4 world market 7%
  .. China---- No 7 World market 3%
  It is clear! Who is bully!!??
  美国又是老一套，贼喊捉贼。
  美国是世界最大的军火出口商，占世界市场份额的30。3%
  俄罗斯老二，占23%
  德国老三，占11%
  法国老四，占7%
  。。。。
  中国老七，占3%
  谁是恶霸？一清二楚。
  jvictor1789 wrote: Aug 26th 2011 9:39 GMT I agree with 8834lw, China is a historically self-centered nation (even by name) unlikely to be imperialistic or aggressive unless carelessly forced to by others.
  And it may not be wise to start what no one knows how it could end.
  Besides, what´s the fight for? The Swiss and the Finns are doing just fine yet they have never nor will conceivably ever be so-called World Powers.
  同意网友8834lw的看法，中国在历史上一直就是一个以自我为中心的国家（从国名便知），不大可能成为帝国或侵略他人，除非被逼上梁山。
  况且，打别人要是不知道怎么收场，那可能就有点不明智了。还有，战争是为了什么呢？在这一点上，瑞士人和芬兰人做得不错，只是他们从来就不是也永远不会是所谓的大国。
  
  JGradus wrote: Aug 26th 2011 9:56 GMT
  The problem is that when great power rub shoulders, friction tends to happen. The last twenty years har seen a lot less risk, simply because noone has been able to challenge the US. In a world where several powers can try to claim hegemony, the risk for war is simply bigger. Not because China is considered an "evil" state, but just because the power balance is much less safe.
  问题是，大国间磕磕碰碰，磨擦在所难免，过去的20年间，战争危险小很多，只是因为没人能挑战美国，世界上如果有几个国家都想称霸，战争的危险就大多了，不是因为中国被视为一个邪恶国家，而是因为寻求力量的制衡才招致越发没有安全感。
  
  New Conservative wrote: Aug 26th 2011 10:05 GMT
   I think people are blowing this out of proportion. The job of the Pentagon is to assume that everyone is a potential enemy. This goes back to the basic idea of General staffs. They sit around in peace time and make plans to fight any and all conceivable enemies so that if things get crazy, the orders are ready to be sent.
  So the report has to take a worst case scenario and than enumerate what those would be. It isn’’t saying they’’re likely.
  我想，这事人们说的有点离谱。五角大楼的工作就是把所有的人假想成潜在的敌人，这就又回到了美国总参的基本理念。他们在和平时期就坐在一起，制定攻打假想敌人的计划，一旦情况恶化，到了抓狂的时候，就准备完毕，下达进攻命令。
  所以其年度报告得把最坏的情况考虑进去，然后估摸一下可能会出现哪些个情况，这不是说就一定可能是真的。
  
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  Vanbrugh wrote: Aug 26th 2011 10:24 GMT The report does make a point about regional stability. The main source of tension will be between the SE Asian countries, Japan, South Korea and Taiwan over China’’s territorial claims and strategic vision. The USA is of course worried because it will most probably be drawn into any conflict that appears in the region (partly thanks to the cold war alliance network), and thus has to do everything it can to avoid it necessitating meddling in the region.
  Unfortunately there is no doubt that the SE Asian issue will only grow more problematic as china’’s military capabilities expand.
  该报告确实强调了地区稳定问题，紧张主要是在东南亚国家之间，日本，韩国以及台湾针对于中国领土要求和战略构想之间的矛盾。美国当然担心，因为它很可能被拖入战争（部分是因为冷战同盟网的原因），所以要极力避免干预该地区。
  可不幸的是，伴随着中国军事力量的扩张，东南亚问题会变得越发扑朔迷离，这是毫无疑问的。
  
  edDjXVyYAU wrote: Aug 26th 2011 10:56 GMT @PL123
  
  If the US is the "bully" because of its arms exports, than what are Germany and France, who export arms on a much higher per capita level. For example, Germany has just 1/4th of the US’’ population, 1/5th of its economy and just 1/36th of its landmass, yet it exports almost 40% of the level of arms as the US. The same holds true for France. So while the Germans have relinquished their own military power and probably would lose a war to a Mexican drug gang, they have no problem exporting their arms all of the world so others can kill each other.
  如果说美国因为其武器出口而成了恶霸，那德国和法国又是什么呢？按人均计算，这两个国家武器出口价值可比美国高多了。比如德国吧，人口只有美国的四分之一，经济总量是美国的五分之一，陆地面积是美国的三十六分之一，但其武器出口额是美国武器出口额的40%。法国也一样。所以，一方面德国放弃了其军事力量，可能就连墨西哥的毒品贩子都打不过，但另一方面，它将其武器出口到全世界让别人相互残杀，这一点是毫无疑问的。
  
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  Fabio C wrote: Aug 26th 2011 10:58 GMT
  China is okay with me. The only thing that annoys me is when people try to convert me or show me the way to haven.
  That really spooks me.
  中国对我来说倒没什么，唯一让我恼火的是，人们极力教化我，告诉我怎么去天堂。
  这确实让我怕怕。
  
  @ Fabio C
  That is the job of the church, not Chinese!!
  叫你去天堂的是教堂，而不是中国人。
  
  New Conservative wrote: Aug 26th 2011 10:59 GMT @Vanbrugh
  I think Taiwan as a war starter is overblown. Both sides have a stable position and the de facto borders are mutually respected. While China could conceivably crush Taiwan if it wanted to, that’’s the worst case scenario for everyone. It would destroy Taiwan’’s economy, which would also do number on China’’s economy (Foxconn for example is Taiwanese) it would kill thousands of Chinese people on both sides of the strait and the Chinese would have to justify that kind of death toll to their own citizenry. 30 years ago when the communists were still communists and the KMT ran Taiwan under martial law, "liberation" would have been fine. Nowadays, people in China know Taiwan is rich and prosperous and would want a substantial justification for wrecking their shit. Taiwan’’s citizens have the tech know how and native mandarin abilities to make sure that people on the mainland see every single Han person killed in a chinese invasion. It would be like the US invading and killing several thousand Canadians.
  China has been committed to peaceful reintegration with the island since the 90’’s and isn’’t going to derail that. Similarly, Taiwan does great with the status quo and doesn’’t want to rock the boat either.
  A new aircraft carrier or missile doesn’’t change the status quo. China has had the capability to say "submit or die" for two decades and they haven’’t.
  Taiwan isn’’t a flashpoint with its super stable status quo and tacitly agreed upon but incredibly clear borders.
  我想，说台湾挑起战争，有点言过其实了，台湾和中国大陆双方关系稳定，相互尊重现在的事实边界。中国大陆想动手，就有可能把台湾打个稀巴烂，那是最糟糕的。这将摧毁台湾经济，当然也会伤害中国大陆的经济（象富士康就是台湾人开的）。战争会让两岸成千上万的中国人生灵涂炭，而对于伤亡数字，中国大陆又得在大陆民众面前找到合理的说辞。30年前，GCD还是在大陆搞共产主义，台湾国民党则用戒严法统治台湾，那时候“解放”一词，应该是个不错的字眼。可现在中国大陆人知道眼下的台湾富裕繁荣，要把它毁了，就得找一个实质性的理由。台湾人有高科技，还能使用其母语---汉语的力量，让大陆人看到，打台湾，死的每一个人都是汉人，就象美国进攻加拿大杀掉数万加拿大人一样。
  中国从上世纪90年代起就一直说要和平统一，不会偏离这个方向的。类似的，台湾维持现状也维持得好，也不想惹是生非。
  一艘新航母或者导弹不能改变现状，中国有能力说：“要么缴枪，要么去死”，尔来已有二十余年，可他们一直没这么干。
  有了极稳定的现状，以及双方同意的明确的分界线，因而台湾不会成为战争的导火线。
  
  Daniel van Loenen wrote: Aug 26th 2011 1:38 GMT
  The strength of any country’’s military is closely related to its wealth, its industrial capabilities and its population size. This means that China’’s strength will continue to grow for some decades to come. So by the way will the strength of countries like India and Indonesia.
  Instead of being alarmed everytime a non-Western country commissions a warship or develops a new missile we should work on embedding the emerging major powers in international frameworks:
  - the permanent members of the UN security counsel should reflect the situation of 2011, not of 1945. work on
  - same for IMF and Worldbank
  - there should be direct contacts between the Chiefs of Staffs of US-China, China-India and US-India.
  - it would be wise to set up a regular meeting of Asian countries to negotiate differences
  国家的军事力量与其财富、工业力量、以及人口规模是密切相关的。这意味着在未来几十年中国的力量将持续增长。象印度、印度尼西亚这些国家的国力也会随之增长。
  每当一个非西方国家建一艘战舰，研发一种新型导弹，我们应在国际框架下，来应对新兴大国问题，而不是一味地警告。
  联合国安理会常任理事国的工作应该反映出2011年的情势，而不是停留在1945年。国际货币基金组织和世界银行也应如此。
  中美之间，中印之间，以及美印之间，主要领导人应该有直接交往和接触。
  Gargantua1 wrote: Aug 26th 2011 1:45 GMT
   "It clearly shows that American strategists still don’t understand Chinese and Chinese culture. We are not Western barbarians. Generally we use culture, trade, and marriages, NOT killing and looting, to interact with other countries."
  Very racist and nationalist generalization - what about the Chinese killing and looting in Tibet? Support of the Burmese military junta, the Sudanese government, Pol Pot, the repression of Uighurs in their homeland, the exterminatin of the Lolos in southwestern China ... . When the 50 cent army droogs starting writing, the spoon fed propaganda comes thick, along with the painful writing that is almost unreadable, bordering on inarticulate.
  很明显，美国的战略家们依然没搞懂中国人，也没搞懂中国文化，我们不是西方的野蛮人。总体来说，我们是通过文化、贸易、还有婚姻和他国交往，不是通过杀戮和掠夺。
  而种族主义和民族主义都是一样的法则----中国人在XZ杀人抢劫又怎么样呢？他们支持缅甸政府军，苏丹政府、扶持前柬埔寨总书记波尔布特、在国内镇压维吾尔人，在中国西南地区镇压藏缅彝少数民族，军队内的那些无赖的宣传，又臭又长，啰啰嗦嗦，几乎不值一看。
  
  
  Dead Language wrote: Aug 26th 2011 2:15 GMT It’’s obverse that China has no intention to fight a war with U.S.,nor want to develop it’’s militay power like the Soviet Union did.Unfold the map you see the tough situation of China’’s defence, covered by nuclear crisis, Amercia military bases,and terrorist hotbeds.
  Moreover,China’’s most vital oil vessels, Malacca and Hormuz, are under the mercy of U.S.navy.
  The report is just a stupit excuse to get a little more budget.
  显然中国是没打算跟美国干仗的，也不想跟前苏联一样发展军事力量，摊开地图就看得到中国国防处境有多难，核危机、美国军事基地、还有恐怖的温床，都在压制中国。另外，中国的石油通道------马六甲海峡和霍尔木兹海峡都被美国海军掌控。所以五角大楼这篇报告只不过是个愚蠢的借口而已，目的是为了多搞点军费。
  
  
  Chris_Malaysian wrote: Aug 26th 2011 2:45 GMT
  American got atleast 11 aircraft carrier fleets.
  Hundreds of military bases around the world.
  Thousands of nuclear warhead with balistic missle.
  Deadly nuclear submarines
  Hundreds of satalite
  Terrible "track records" interfering other country domestic issues.
  Constant picking fights (wars) with small country since WW2
  And NOW American is brankrupt sitting with deadly high tech military weapon, watching Wall Street falling.
  You better be fearfull what American going to do next than China.
  美国至少有十一个航空母舰战斗群
  在全球有数百个军事基地
  几千枚装有核弹头的弹道导弹
  追命的核潜艇
  几百颗卫星
  可恶的干涉他国内政的“前科”纪录
  自二战以来不断对小国诉诸武力
  而现在美国怀抱着致命的高科技武器破产，眼睁睁看着华尔街败落。
  所以你要担心的是美国下一步要干什么，而不是中国。
  
  Jean Michel wrote: Aug 26th 2011 3:01 GMT @ JGradus, you wrote:
  "The problem is that when great power rub shoulders, friction tends to happen. The last twenty years har seen a lot less risk, simply because noone has been able to challenge the US. In a world where several powers can try to claim hegemony, the risk for war is simply bigger. Not because China is considered an "evil" state, but just because the power balance is much less safe."
  And what about the invasions of Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. These were not simply risks of wars but wars and murders committed by the US armed forces. If there is an evil nation in this world, it is the US. How many millions of people have been murdered in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan?
  网友@ JGradus说什么“大国间磕磕碰碰，磨擦在所难免，过去的20年间，战争危险小很多，只是因为没人能挑战美国，世界上如果有几个国家都想称霸，战争的危险就大多了，不是因为中国被视为一个邪恶国家，而是因为寻求力量的制衡才招致越发没有安全感”
  那么美国打越南、伊拉克、阿富汗又是怎么回事呢？这些可不是什么战争危险，而是美国军队犯下的战争和谋杀罪，如果说世界上有邪恶国家，那就是美国，在越南、伊拉克、阿富汗有多少人被杀？
  
  TS2912 wrote: Aug 26th 2011 3:15 GMT Military power (in any independent country) is a RESULT of economic power.
  The US has been overextended for decades... spending more money than the rest of the world (combined) in building a giant military force while cutting down on education, infrastructure & sensible economic policy.
  One has to simply look at the last 15 years to see where our priorities lie...
  #1 In the 90s, the right wing nearly brought down the government over Clinton’’s liaison with an intern
  #2 In the early part of last decade, the right wing government invaded the wrong country and spent trillions (and still keep spending into that black hole)
  #3 For the past 3 years, the right wing is hysterically going all out to remove the black president leading our country (and our black president has failed to deliver on almost anything)
  #4 Add to that the fact that the rich people control everything in our country via lobbies (unionized doctors making at least $300k as starting salary, pharma companies ripping us off, defense contractors owning the government, lawyers with a choke-hold, the rich guys paying the lowest tax rate in history).
  #5 The typical American is functionally illiterate (for the 21st century) and superstitious...
  It is just a matter of time before we go down to second place (and deservedly so).
  任何一个独立国家的军事力量都是靠经济力量来支撑的，美国扩张了几十年，为建立强大的军事力量，花的钱比全世界其它国家加起来都多，可大量削减教育和基础设施投资，缺少明智的经济政策。随便看看过去的15年就知道我们优先搞了些什么东东。
  #1 在90年代，因为克林顿跟莱温斯基有一腿，右冀差点把政府给扳倒了。
  #2 新世纪刚过那会儿，右冀政府入侵他国，搞错了地方，丢了上万美刀（到现在还在往这个黑窟窿里砸钱）
  #3 在过去的3年里，右翼歇斯底里、全力以赴地要赶走那个黑人总统，不让他领导我们的国家。（这个黑人总统也是不争气，什么都没兑现）
  #4还有，富人用掠夺手段控制了国家的一切（入了工会的医生起薪就要30万美刀，医药公司盘剥我们，国防承包商控制了政府，律师卡人脖子，富人交税在历史上最低）
  #5 典型的美国人基本上是21世纪的文盲，而且是过于迷信（自我）所以我们沦为老二只是时间问题（这也算是罪有应得）
  
  Roelund wrote: Aug 26th 2011 3:18 GMT Nationalistic debates as to what is "fair" or "right" in terms of military size aside, any dramatic shift in the political or military status quo is dangerous, not because of the shift in power itself, but because of each side’’s reaction to it. If this rise causes the Pentagon to re-allocate US naval forces to the Pacific, or other Asian countries to prepare themselves against a contingency (whether realistic or not), then we have ourselves an arms race, which never leads to anything peaceful.
  I do wish people would stop using generalizations with the word "China": "China is outraged...". "China believes..." Really? All 1.3 billion of them? A defensive report by the Xinhua News Agency does not equate to "China", any more than a report by Voice of America equates to Barack Obama’’s personal statements.
  民族主义者纠结于军事规模上所谓的“公平”或“正确”，但政治军事上的任何改变现状过急的动作都是很危险的，这倒不是因力量变换本身有什么危险，而是各方对它的反应可能会招致不测，如果中国崛起让美国向太平洋重新分配海军力量，或者说亚洲其它国家人人自危，以备不测，那就出现军备竞赛，世界永无宁日。
  我真的希望人们不要用“中国”一词以偏概全，什么“中国愤怒了”，“中国认为。。。”果真如此吗？是13亿中国人的声音吗？新华社的国防报告不等于“中国”（的国防报告），就如同美国之音的报道只等同于奥巴马个人言论一样。
  
  New Conservative wrote: Aug 26th 2011 3:21 GMT @Jean Michael
  I also agree that the Chinese invasion of Vietnam in 1979 was a travesty.
  And it was done to support Khmer Rouge.
  @Bianca75
  I don’’t think the article was trying to understate or conceal the ridiculously oversized US military.
  我还认为中国1979年入侵越南是歪曲事实。
  其目的是为了支持红色高棉
  @Bianca75网友
  我认为这篇文章没想要低估或隐瞒美国那荒唐超大的军事力量
  wise man from the east wrote: Aug 26th 2011 3:35 GMT
  The world indeed has much to fear from the Chinese wolf in sheep’’s clothing - it wants to make a Tibet or a Xinjiang of the rest of the world. The South East Asian countries like Philippine, Vietnam, Brunei and Indonesia are already feeling the heat of China’’s colonialist ambitions.
  China is like pre WW-II Japan - it is after natural resources in other countries and continents to fuel its own growth.
  China has always been a ruthless expansionist power. Remember how China sent in troops across the Friendship Pass to teach Vietnam a lesson? Remember how China sent troops across the Himalayan pass to teach India a lesson?
  The Soviet Union has dissolved but not the Chinese Empire. Tibet and Xinjiang (comprising of a very significant proportion of land mass under Chinese Empire) can do nothing to safeguard their ancestral land from Hans who keep pouring in droves to alter the land’’s demography and secure the land for the colonialists.
  China’’s maritime designs are there for all to see. It has laid claim to Paracel and Spratly islands near the shore of smaller nations for the express purpose of claiming the entire sea lying between China and these small nations.
  China will do anything and everything to pursue its hegemonist goals - its cosy relationship with Pakistan’’s military is a good example. China has never backed away from its bull-in-china-shop policy of of enhancing Pakistan military’’s nuclear and missile capability in exchange for direct access to the Arabian sea via Gwadar port.
  China today is more dangerous than pre WW-II Japan and for much the same reasons. Its hunger for natural resources is sending it to other countries and continents. The world needs to be very wary of China’’s militarization.
  
  
  全世界确实害怕中国这只披着羊皮的狼---它想把世界其它的地方也变成另一个XJ或XZ，南亚国家象菲律宾、越南、缅甸和印尼已经感受到了中国殖民主义的热浪
  中国就象是二战前的日本，----到世界其它国家或其它大陆去抢资源，以维持自身的经济增长。
  中国一直就是一个无情的扩张主义大国，还记得中国发兵通过友谊关教训越南吗？还记得中国军队翻过喜玛拉雅山教训印度吗？
  苏联已散架了，可中华帝国还没有，XZ和XJ不能守望他们先人的土地，阻止不了汉人的疯狂涌入，他们不断改变这里的人口结构，从而保证其成为汉人的殖民地。
  从中国海洋规划便知一切，中国宣称对西沙和南沙拥有主权，这些群岛都是小国家的近岸岛屿。中国这么做很明显，是想把这些小国家和中国之间的海域都收入囊中。
  中国会极尽一切手段以达到其霸权之目的，它与巴基斯坦军事上的紧密关系就是一个很好的例证。中国从来就没有动摇其卤莽政策，提高巴基斯坦的核武器以及道弹能力，从而能从巴国的瓜达尔港直入阿拉伯海。
  今天的中国比二战前的日本更危险，其理由是一样的，即对资源的渴求，而驱使它到别的国家和大陆翻箱倒柜。对于中国的军事化，全世界都要保持警惕啊。
  
http://www.tianyayidu.com/article-a-434952.html

标题: China’’s military powerModernisation in sheep’’s clothing
披着羊皮的中国军事现代化
提示:美国"经济学人"网站博文,说美国五角大楼发表最新中国军力年度报告,喜之:中国高层无意与其它大国一争高低,一心只想搞经济,忧之:中国的军事力正在突飞猛进.如今年J-20试飞,东风--21D成军,瓦良格试水等等等等。。。美国军方忧心忡忡，担心中国些举引发地区紧张和焦虑。网民也纷纷发表看法，正文不译了，只译评论，地址是  http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2011/08/chinas-military-power?page=1
Niko Bellic wrote: Aug 26th 2011 8:28 GMT
  What else can you expect from the American’’s report other than accusations? Anyone using an aircraft a little bit more modernized than MiG 15 (1950’’s technology) and does not follow their orders, they simply consider adversary or potential enemy.
  These accusations and Chinese military modernizations are, what the Americans and more hawkish military personnels and realist scholars believe, the basis of their legitimacy for their continuing military dominance in East Asia.
  Another classic case of a Chinese idiom - your butt (where you sit, implying what careers you have) directs your brain.
  美国人除了诬告，还能做出什么好事呢？任何人只要不听美国的调遣，用的飞机只要比米格15先进一点（50年代的技术），就被诬蔑是美国的敌手或者是潜在的敌人。
  
  8834LWz57V wrote: Aug 26th 2011 8:41 GMT its so lame that the pentagon must make accusations of China’’s growing military power to legitimize their military influence in the pacific region.
  As far as i’’m concerned, China probably sits back and jokes ’’if America wants to police the world, hell let them burn their dollars.’’
  For the past 3000 years (except the last 300 years, China and India alone accounted for more than 50% of the world output. Yet during the height of China’’s power, it did not seek to expand beyound its current borders. Never in history has China invaded a nation beyound its immediate boundary even if it had the power to do so.
  So if China has it wants to remain peacefully ascent, according to history, I would believe so.
  五角大楼非要指责中国军力增长以作为挡箭牌，使其在太平洋地区的军事影响合法化，这也太无聊了。
  就我而言，美国这么干，中国很可能会悠闲地坐在那儿看笑话，说“美国人既然想当世界警察，那就让他们花光它的美元吧。”
  在过去的3000年的时间里，除了最近300年，光是中国和印度的产值就占了全世界的50%
  就算是中国力量处在鼎盛时期，也从未寻求对外扩张，在历史上即使有能力入侵他国，也从未真正这么干过。
  所以，从历史上看，如果中国是想和平崛起，我相信是真的。
  
  Niko Bellic wrote: Aug 26th 2011 8:43 GMT Americans and those who do not understand China might perceive it as dangerous.
  For those who truly know what China has been doing in the last century, we always believe China is a bigger threat to its own citizen than to any foreign country.
  美国人还有那些不了解中国的人，可能认为中国是危险分子，真正了解了中国在过去的一个世纪所作所为的人，都一直以为，中国对自己公民的威胁远大于对他国的威胁。
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  PL123 wrote: Aug 26th 2011 8:45 GMT As usual: Thief cry thief!!
  
  American is the biggest weapons exporter, dominated world market 30,3%
  Russia---No 2 world market 23 %
  Germany----No 3 world market 11%
  France---No 4 world market 7%
  .. China---- No 7 World market 3%
  It is clear! Who is bully!!??
  美国又是老一套，贼喊捉贼。
  美国是世界最大的军火出口商，占世界市场份额的30。3%
  俄罗斯老二，占23%
  德国老三，占11%
  法国老四，占7%
  。。。。
  中国老七，占3%
  谁是恶霸？一清二楚。
  jvictor1789 wrote: Aug 26th 2011 9:39 GMT I agree with 8834lw, China is a historically self-centered nation (even by name) unlikely to be imperialistic or aggressive unless carelessly forced to by others.
  And it may not be wise to start what no one knows how it could end.
  Besides, what´s the fight for? The Swiss and the Finns are doing just fine yet they have never nor will conceivably ever be so-called World Powers.
  同意网友8834lw的看法，中国在历史上一直就是一个以自我为中心的国家（从国名便知），不大可能成为帝国或侵略他人，除非被逼上梁山。
  况且，打别人要是不知道怎么收场，那可能就有点不明智了。还有，战争是为了什么呢？在这一点上，瑞士人和芬兰人做得不错，只是他们从来就不是也永远不会是所谓的大国。
  
  JGradus wrote: Aug 26th 2011 9:56 GMT
  The problem is that when great power rub shoulders, friction tends to happen. The last twenty years har seen a lot less risk, simply because noone has been able to challenge the US. In a world where several powers can try to claim hegemony, the risk for war is simply bigger. Not because China is considered an "evil" state, but just because the power balance is much less safe.
  问题是，大国间磕磕碰碰，磨擦在所难免，过去的20年间，战争危险小很多，只是因为没人能挑战美国，世界上如果有几个国家都想称霸，战争的危险就大多了，不是因为中国被视为一个邪恶国家，而是因为寻求力量的制衡才招致越发没有安全感。
  
  New Conservative wrote: Aug 26th 2011 10:05 GMT
   I think people are blowing this out of proportion. The job of the Pentagon is to assume that everyone is a potential enemy. This goes back to the basic idea of General staffs. They sit around in peace time and make plans to fight any and all conceivable enemies so that if things get crazy, the orders are ready to be sent.
  So the report has to take a worst case scenario and than enumerate what those would be. It isn’’t saying they’’re likely.
  我想，这事人们说的有点离谱。五角大楼的工作就是把所有的人假想成潜在的敌人，这就又回到了美国总参的基本理念。他们在和平时期就坐在一起，制定攻打假想敌人的计划，一旦情况恶化，到了抓狂的时候，就准备完毕，下达进攻命令。
  所以其年度报告得把最坏的情况考虑进去，然后估摸一下可能会出现哪些个情况，这不是说就一定可能是真的。
  
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  Vanbrugh wrote: Aug 26th 2011 10:24 GMT The report does make a point about regional stability. The main source of tension will be between the SE Asian countries, Japan, South Korea and Taiwan over China’’s territorial claims and strategic vision. The USA is of course worried because it will most probably be drawn into any conflict that appears in the region (partly thanks to the cold war alliance network), and thus has to do everything it can to avoid it necessitating meddling in the region.
  Unfortunately there is no doubt that the SE Asian issue will only grow more problematic as china’’s military capabilities expand.
  该报告确实强调了地区稳定问题，紧张主要是在东南亚国家之间，日本，韩国以及台湾针对于中国领土要求和战略构想之间的矛盾。美国当然担心，因为它很可能被拖入战争（部分是因为冷战同盟网的原因），所以要极力避免干预该地区。
  可不幸的是，伴随着中国军事力量的扩张，东南亚问题会变得越发扑朔迷离，这是毫无疑问的。
  
  edDjXVyYAU wrote: Aug 26th 2011 10:56 GMT @PL123
  
  If the US is the "bully" because of its arms exports, than what are Germany and France, who export arms on a much higher per capita level. For example, Germany has just 1/4th of the US’’ population, 1/5th of its economy and just 1/36th of its landmass, yet it exports almost 40% of the level of arms as the US. The same holds true for France. So while the Germans have relinquished their own military power and probably would lose a war to a Mexican drug gang, they have no problem exporting their arms all of the world so others can kill each other.
  如果说美国因为其武器出口而成了恶霸，那德国和法国又是什么呢？按人均计算，这两个国家武器出口价值可比美国高多了。比如德国吧，人口只有美国的四分之一，经济总量是美国的五分之一，陆地面积是美国的三十六分之一，但其武器出口额是美国武器出口额的40%。法国也一样。所以，一方面德国放弃了其军事力量，可能就连墨西哥的毒品贩子都打不过，但另一方面，它将其武器出口到全世界让别人相互残杀，这一点是毫无疑问的。
  
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  Fabio C wrote: Aug 26th 2011 10:58 GMT
  China is okay with me. The only thing that annoys me is when people try to convert me or show me the way to haven.
  That really spooks me.
  中国对我来说倒没什么，唯一让我恼火的是，人们极力教化我，告诉我怎么去天堂。
  这确实让我怕怕。
  
  @ Fabio C
  That is the job of the church, not Chinese!!
  叫你去天堂的是教堂，而不是中国人。
  
  New Conservative wrote: Aug 26th 2011 10:59 GMT @Vanbrugh
  I think Taiwan as a war starter is overblown. Both sides have a stable position and the de facto borders are mutually respected. While China could conceivably crush Taiwan if it wanted to, that’’s the worst case scenario for everyone. It would destroy Taiwan’’s economy, which would also do number on China’’s economy (Foxconn for example is Taiwanese) it would kill thousands of Chinese people on both sides of the strait and the Chinese would have to justify that kind of death toll to their own citizenry. 30 years ago when the communists were still communists and the KMT ran Taiwan under martial law, "liberation" would have been fine. Nowadays, people in China know Taiwan is rich and prosperous and would want a substantial justification for wrecking their shit. Taiwan’’s citizens have the tech know how and native mandarin abilities to make sure that people on the mainland see every single Han person killed in a chinese invasion. It would be like the US invading and killing several thousand Canadians.
  China has been committed to peaceful reintegration with the island since the 90’’s and isn’’t going to derail that. Similarly, Taiwan does great with the status quo and doesn’’t want to rock the boat either.
  A new aircraft carrier or missile doesn’’t change the status quo. China has had the capability to say "submit or die" for two decades and they haven’’t.
  Taiwan isn’’t a flashpoint with its super stable status quo and tacitly agreed upon but incredibly clear borders.
  我想，说台湾挑起战争，有点言过其实了，台湾和中国大陆双方关系稳定，相互尊重现在的事实边界。中国大陆想动手，就有可能把台湾打个稀巴烂，那是最糟糕的。这将摧毁台湾经济，当然也会伤害中国大陆的经济（象富士康就是台湾人开的）。战争会让两岸成千上万的中国人生灵涂炭，而对于伤亡数字，中国大陆又得在大陆民众面前找到合理的说辞。30年前，GCD还是在大陆搞共产主义，台湾国民党则用戒严法统治台湾，那时候“解放”一词，应该是个不错的字眼。可现在中国大陆人知道眼下的台湾富裕繁荣，要把它毁了，就得找一个实质性的理由。台湾人有高科技，还能使用其母语---汉语的力量，让大陆人看到，打台湾，死的每一个人都是汉人，就象美国进攻加拿大杀掉数万加拿大人一样。
  中国从上世纪90年代起就一直说要和平统一，不会偏离这个方向的。类似的，台湾维持现状也维持得好，也不想惹是生非。
  一艘新航母或者导弹不能改变现状，中国有能力说：“要么缴枪，要么去死”，尔来已有二十余年，可他们一直没这么干。
  有了极稳定的现状，以及双方同意的明确的分界线，因而台湾不会成为战争的导火线。
  
  Daniel van Loenen wrote: Aug 26th 2011 1:38 GMT
  The strength of any country’’s military is closely related to its wealth, its industrial capabilities and its population size. This means that China’’s strength will continue to grow for some decades to come. So by the way will the strength of countries like India and Indonesia.
  Instead of being alarmed everytime a non-Western country commissions a warship or develops a new missile we should work on embedding the emerging major powers in international frameworks:
  - the permanent members of the UN security counsel should reflect the situation of 2011, not of 1945. work on
  - same for IMF and Worldbank
  - there should be direct contacts between the Chiefs of Staffs of US-China, China-India and US-India.
  - it would be wise to set up a regular meeting of Asian countries to negotiate differences
  国家的军事力量与其财富、工业力量、以及人口规模是密切相关的。这意味着在未来几十年中国的力量将持续增长。象印度、印度尼西亚这些国家的国力也会随之增长。
  每当一个非西方国家建一艘战舰，研发一种新型导弹，我们应在国际框架下，来应对新兴大国问题，而不是一味地警告。
  联合国安理会常任理事国的工作应该反映出2011年的情势，而不是停留在1945年。国际货币基金组织和世界银行也应如此。
  中美之间，中印之间，以及美印之间，主要领导人应该有直接交往和接触。
  Gargantua1 wrote: Aug 26th 2011 1:45 GMT
   "It clearly shows that American strategists still don’t understand Chinese and Chinese culture. We are not Western barbarians. Generally we use culture, trade, and marriages, NOT killing and looting, to interact with other countries."
  Very racist and nationalist generalization - what about the Chinese killing and looting in Tibet? Support of the Burmese military junta, the Sudanese government, Pol Pot, the repression of Uighurs in their homeland, the exterminatin of the Lolos in southwestern China ... . When the 50 cent army droogs starting writing, the spoon fed propaganda comes thick, along with the painful writing that is almost unreadable, bordering on inarticulate.
  很明显，美国的战略家们依然没搞懂中国人，也没搞懂中国文化，我们不是西方的野蛮人。总体来说，我们是通过文化、贸易、还有婚姻和他国交往，不是通过杀戮和掠夺。
  而种族主义和民族主义都是一样的法则----中国人在XZ杀人抢劫又怎么样呢？他们支持缅甸政府军，苏丹政府、扶持前柬埔寨总书记波尔布特、在国内镇压维吾尔人，在中国西南地区镇压藏缅彝少数民族，军队内的那些无赖的宣传，又臭又长，啰啰嗦嗦，几乎不值一看。
  
  
  Dead Language wrote: Aug 26th 2011 2:15 GMT It’’s obverse that China has no intention to fight a war with U.S.,nor want to develop it’’s militay power like the Soviet Union did.Unfold the map you see the tough situation of China’’s defence, covered by nuclear crisis, Amercia military bases,and terrorist hotbeds.
  Moreover,China’’s most vital oil vessels, Malacca and Hormuz, are under the mercy of U.S.navy.
  The report is just a stupit excuse to get a little more budget.
  显然中国是没打算跟美国干仗的，也不想跟前苏联一样发展军事力量，摊开地图就看得到中国国防处境有多难，核危机、美国军事基地、还有恐怖的温床，都在压制中国。另外，中国的石油通道------马六甲海峡和霍尔木兹海峡都被美国海军掌控。所以五角大楼这篇报告只不过是个愚蠢的借口而已，目的是为了多搞点军费。
  
  
  Chris_Malaysian wrote: Aug 26th 2011 2:45 GMT
  American got atleast 11 aircraft carrier fleets.
  Hundreds of military bases around the world.
  Thousands of nuclear warhead with balistic missle.
  Deadly nuclear submarines
  Hundreds of satalite
  Terrible "track records" interfering other country domestic issues.
  Constant picking fights (wars) with small country since WW2
  And NOW American is brankrupt sitting with deadly high tech military weapon, watching Wall Street falling.
  You better be fearfull what American going to do next than China.
  美国至少有十一个航空母舰战斗群
  在全球有数百个军事基地
  几千枚装有核弹头的弹道导弹
  追命的核潜艇
  几百颗卫星
  可恶的干涉他国内政的“前科”纪录
  自二战以来不断对小国诉诸武力
  而现在美国怀抱着致命的高科技武器破产，眼睁睁看着华尔街败落。
  所以你要担心的是美国下一步要干什么，而不是中国。
  
  Jean Michel wrote: Aug 26th 2011 3:01 GMT @ JGradus, you wrote:
  "The problem is that when great power rub shoulders, friction tends to happen. The last twenty years har seen a lot less risk, simply because noone has been able to challenge the US. In a world where several powers can try to claim hegemony, the risk for war is simply bigger. Not because China is considered an "evil" state, but just because the power balance is much less safe."
  And what about the invasions of Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. These were not simply risks of wars but wars and murders committed by the US armed forces. If there is an evil nation in this world, it is the US. How many millions of people have been murdered in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan?
  网友@ JGradus说什么“大国间磕磕碰碰，磨擦在所难免，过去的20年间，战争危险小很多，只是因为没人能挑战美国，世界上如果有几个国家都想称霸，战争的危险就大多了，不是因为中国被视为一个邪恶国家，而是因为寻求力量的制衡才招致越发没有安全感”
  那么美国打越南、伊拉克、阿富汗又是怎么回事呢？这些可不是什么战争危险，而是美国军队犯下的战争和谋杀罪，如果说世界上有邪恶国家，那就是美国，在越南、伊拉克、阿富汗有多少人被杀？
  
  TS2912 wrote: Aug 26th 2011 3:15 GMT Military power (in any independent country) is a RESULT of economic power.
  The US has been overextended for decades... spending more money than the rest of the world (combined) in building a giant military force while cutting down on education, infrastructure & sensible economic policy.
  One has to simply look at the last 15 years to see where our priorities lie...
  #1 In the 90s, the right wing nearly brought down the government over Clinton’’s liaison with an intern
  #2 In the early part of last decade, the right wing government invaded the wrong country and spent trillions (and still keep spending into that black hole)
  #3 For the past 3 years, the right wing is hysterically going all out to remove the black president leading our country (and our black president has failed to deliver on almost anything)
  #4 Add to that the fact that the rich people control everything in our country via lobbies (unionized doctors making at least $300k as starting salary, pharma companies ripping us off, defense contractors owning the government, lawyers with a choke-hold, the rich guys paying the lowest tax rate in history).
  #5 The typical American is functionally illiterate (for the 21st century) and superstitious...
  It is just a matter of time before we go down to second place (and deservedly so).
  任何一个独立国家的军事力量都是靠经济力量来支撑的，美国扩张了几十年，为建立强大的军事力量，花的钱比全世界其它国家加起来都多，可大量削减教育和基础设施投资，缺少明智的经济政策。随便看看过去的15年就知道我们优先搞了些什么东东。
  #1 在90年代，因为克林顿跟莱温斯基有一腿，右冀差点把政府给扳倒了。
  #2 新世纪刚过那会儿，右冀政府入侵他国，搞错了地方，丢了上万美刀（到现在还在往这个黑窟窿里砸钱）
  #3 在过去的3年里，右翼歇斯底里、全力以赴地要赶走那个黑人总统，不让他领导我们的国家。（这个黑人总统也是不争气，什么都没兑现）
  #4还有，富人用掠夺手段控制了国家的一切（入了工会的医生起薪就要30万美刀，医药公司盘剥我们，国防承包商控制了政府，律师卡人脖子，富人交税在历史上最低）
  #5 典型的美国人基本上是21世纪的文盲，而且是过于迷信（自我）所以我们沦为老二只是时间问题（这也算是罪有应得）
  
  Roelund wrote: Aug 26th 2011 3:18 GMT Nationalistic debates as to what is "fair" or "right" in terms of military size aside, any dramatic shift in the political or military status quo is dangerous, not because of the shift in power itself, but because of each side’’s reaction to it. If this rise causes the Pentagon to re-allocate US naval forces to the Pacific, or other Asian countries to prepare themselves against a contingency (whether realistic or not), then we have ourselves an arms race, which never leads to anything peaceful.
  I do wish people would stop using generalizations with the word "China": "China is outraged...". "China believes..." Really? All 1.3 billion of them? A defensive report by the Xinhua News Agency does not equate to "China", any more than a report by Voice of America equates to Barack Obama’’s personal statements.
  民族主义者纠结于军事规模上所谓的“公平”或“正确”，但政治军事上的任何改变现状过急的动作都是很危险的，这倒不是因力量变换本身有什么危险，而是各方对它的反应可能会招致不测，如果中国崛起让美国向太平洋重新分配海军力量，或者说亚洲其它国家人人自危，以备不测，那就出现军备竞赛，世界永无宁日。
  我真的希望人们不要用“中国”一词以偏概全，什么“中国愤怒了”，“中国认为。。。”果真如此吗？是13亿中国人的声音吗？新华社的国防报告不等于“中国”（的国防报告），就如同美国之音的报道只等同于奥巴马个人言论一样。
  
  New Conservative wrote: Aug 26th 2011 3:21 GMT @Jean Michael
  I also agree that the Chinese invasion of Vietnam in 1979 was a travesty.
  And it was done to support Khmer Rouge.
  @Bianca75
  I don’’t think the article was trying to understate or conceal the ridiculously oversized US military.
  我还认为中国1979年入侵越南是歪曲事实。
  其目的是为了支持红色高棉
  @Bianca75网友
  我认为这篇文章没想要低估或隐瞒美国那荒唐超大的军事力量
  wise man from the east wrote: Aug 26th 2011 3:35 GMT
  The world indeed has much to fear from the Chinese wolf in sheep’’s clothing - it wants to make a Tibet or a Xinjiang of the rest of the world. The South East Asian countries like Philippine, Vietnam, Brunei and Indonesia are already feeling the heat of China’’s colonialist ambitions.
  China is like pre WW-II Japan - it is after natural resources in other countries and continents to fuel its own growth.
  China has always been a ruthless expansionist power. Remember how China sent in troops across the Friendship Pass to teach Vietnam a lesson? Remember how China sent troops across the Himalayan pass to teach India a lesson?
  The Soviet Union has dissolved but not the Chinese Empire. Tibet and Xinjiang (comprising of a very significant proportion of land mass under Chinese Empire) can do nothing to safeguard their ancestral land from Hans who keep pouring in droves to alter the land’’s demography and secure the land for the colonialists.
  China’’s maritime designs are there for all to see. It has laid claim to Paracel and Spratly islands near the shore of smaller nations for the express purpose of claiming the entire sea lying between China and these small nations.
  China will do anything and everything to pursue its hegemonist goals - its cosy relationship with Pakistan’’s military is a good example. China has never backed away from its bull-in-china-shop policy of of enhancing Pakistan military’’s nuclear and missile capability in exchange for direct access to the Arabian sea via Gwadar port.
  China today is more dangerous than pre WW-II Japan and for much the same reasons. Its hunger for natural resources is sending it to other countries and continents. The world needs to be very wary of China’’s militarization.
  
  
  全世界确实害怕中国这只披着羊皮的狼---它想把世界其它的地方也变成另一个XJ或XZ，南亚国家象菲律宾、越南、缅甸和印尼已经感受到了中国殖民主义的热浪
  中国就象是二战前的日本，----到世界其它国家或其它大陆去抢资源，以维持自身的经济增长。
  中国一直就是一个无情的扩张主义大国，还记得中国发兵通过友谊关教训越南吗？还记得中国军队翻过喜玛拉雅山教训印度吗？
  苏联已散架了，可中华帝国还没有，XZ和XJ不能守望他们先人的土地，阻止不了汉人的疯狂涌入，他们不断改变这里的人口结构，从而保证其成为汉人的殖民地。
  从中国海洋规划便知一切，中国宣称对西沙和南沙拥有主权，这些群岛都是小国家的近岸岛屿。中国这么做很明显，是想把这些小国家和中国之间的海域都收入囊中。
  中国会极尽一切手段以达到其霸权之目的，它与巴基斯坦军事上的紧密关系就是一个很好的例证。中国从来就没有动摇其卤莽政策，提高巴基斯坦的核武器以及道弹能力，从而能从巴国的瓜达尔港直入阿拉伯海。
  今天的中国比二战前的日本更危险，其理由是一样的，即对资源的渴求，而驱使它到别的国家和大陆翻箱倒柜。对于中国的军事化，全世界都要保持警惕啊。
  
http://www.tianyayidu.com/article-a-434952.html