终于有某国进口山寨苏联飞船的证据了。

来源:百度文库 编辑:超级军网 时间:2024/04/16 12:28:59
有人说中国的神舟飞船是山寨前苏联的联盟宇宙飞船,但是一来从没出现确切地证据,二来神舟比联盟号大许多,始终没有定论,现在终于有某国进口,山寨苏联飞船的证据了,而且不只一艘飞船,是7艘,真真的大扫货啊。等等。。。

http://www.aviationweek.com/Arti ... 2012_p50-498610.xml

Soviet Gear, Internet Funds Drive Other Vehicles

By Frank Morring, Jr.

Source: Aviation Week & Space Technology
October 01, 2012

Frank Morring, Jr. Washington

NASA's deep pockets have always driven human spaceflight developments, and they continue to do so even as the U.S. agency backs away from the government-owned vehicles that typified the first 50 years of human spaceflight.

While most of the commercial crew vehicles under development in the post-shuttle era got their starts with NASA seed money, a couple of companies are seriously working on crew vehicles without a major role for Uncle Sam.

They are as different as night and day. Secretive Blue Origin is drawing on the deep private pockets of Amazon.com founder Jeff Bezos to build human spacecraft for the prospective orbital and suborbital markets, carefully concealing his company's activities from prying eyes at a closed factory near Seattle and a remote test site in West Texas.

Swashbuckling Excalibur Almaz is openly promoting its plans to upgrade 40-year-old Soviet human-spaceflight vehicles for tourist flights to cislunar space, inviting visitors to kick the tires on their venerable hardware at open houses in their Isle of Man headquarters.

“Originally they were the Russian equivalent of the American Air Force MOL program, the Manned Orbiting Laboratory,” says Art Dula, a longtime space entrepreneur from Houston who is listed as founder and CEO of Excalibur Almaz, which operates under the oversight of the U.K. Space Agency (UKSA). “While the Manned Orbiting Laboratory didn't get to flight hardware, the Russian secret equivalent of it did, with three space stations and nine successful orbital flights by the reentry vehicle.”

Dula says his company has acquired five “reentry vehicles” and two of the Salyut-class orbital stations, and has obtained assurances from their builder—the now-private missile-manufacturer Mashinostroyenia—that there is enough of a supply base left to refly them if a market emerges. That market, says Dula, would be privately funded trips to lunar orbit or an Earth-Moon Lagrangian point, where at least one of the stations would be pre-positioned.

Technical details are sketchy. Excalibur Almaz is working with Busek Space Propulsion of Natick, Mass., to obtain Hall-thruster technology to move the stations to cislunar space, Dula says. EADS Astrium of Bremen, Germany, will adapt systems originally developed for the European Space Agency's Automated Transfer Vehicle to outfit the Russian structures.
Dula has a long history working with Russian space companies, going back to the early days of the post-Soviet Russian Federation. His company management includes a couple of cosmonauts, and its list of advisers includes George Abbey, who helped oversee the merger of the U.S. and Russian government space-station efforts as director of Johnson Space Center and a staffer on the old White House Space Council.

Dula says Excalibur Almaz has raised $49 million to reach this point, and is working on “bridge” financing to market its wares. The company has an “expedition” model for financing its operations, with the customers paying for the outfitting and use of the space assets. Dula cites a study he commissioned with Futron Corp. that suggests there are a few dozen potential customers with the funds and interest to buy tickets.

“Do they need a telescope?” he says. “Do they want to mount a tether to drag on the lunar surface to pick up surface samples, do they want to do scientific work in zero gravity? We're just building the expedition.”

Blue Origin received $25.7 million from NASA in the first two rounds of the Commercial Crew Development effort, but did not bid on the Commercial Crew Integrated Capability (CCiCap) round that distributed $1.1 billion among Boeing, Sierra Nevada and SpaceX. It declined comment on whether it will take part in the human-rating competition NASA is running in parallel with the CCiCap development.

In May, company officials said Blue Origin is at work on separate vehicles for two different flight profiles. The New Shepherd suborbital vertical-takeoff-and-landing spacecraft would fly space tourists and scientific researchers and return to a powered landing. An unnamed seven-seat orbital capsule would use the Atlas V to reach space initially, although the company has plans “several years in the future” to build its own partially reusable launch vehicle to propel its human space vehicle to orbit (AW&ST May 7, p. 29).
有人说中国的神舟飞船是山寨前苏联的联盟宇宙飞船,但是一来从没出现确切地证据,二来神舟比联盟号大许多,始终没有定论,现在终于有某国进口,山寨苏联飞船的证据了,而且不只一艘飞船,是7艘,真真的大扫货啊。等等。。。

http://www.aviationweek.com/Arti ... 2012_p50-498610.xml

Soviet Gear, Internet Funds Drive Other Vehicles

By Frank Morring, Jr.

Source: Aviation Week & Space Technology
October 01, 2012

Frank Morring, Jr. Washington

NASA's deep pockets have always driven human spaceflight developments, and they continue to do so even as the U.S. agency backs away from the government-owned vehicles that typified the first 50 years of human spaceflight.

While most of the commercial crew vehicles under development in the post-shuttle era got their starts with NASA seed money, a couple of companies are seriously working on crew vehicles without a major role for Uncle Sam.

They are as different as night and day. Secretive Blue Origin is drawing on the deep private pockets of Amazon.com founder Jeff Bezos to build human spacecraft for the prospective orbital and suborbital markets, carefully concealing his company's activities from prying eyes at a closed factory near Seattle and a remote test site in West Texas.

Swashbuckling Excalibur Almaz is openly promoting its plans to upgrade 40-year-old Soviet human-spaceflight vehicles for tourist flights to cislunar space, inviting visitors to kick the tires on their venerable hardware at open houses in their Isle of Man headquarters.

“Originally they were the Russian equivalent of the American Air Force MOL program, the Manned Orbiting Laboratory,” says Art Dula, a longtime space entrepreneur from Houston who is listed as founder and CEO of Excalibur Almaz, which operates under the oversight of the U.K. Space Agency (UKSA). “While the Manned Orbiting Laboratory didn't get to flight hardware, the Russian secret equivalent of it did, with three space stations and nine successful orbital flights by the reentry vehicle.”

Dula says his company has acquired five “reentry vehicles” and two of the Salyut-class orbital stations, and has obtained assurances from their builder—the now-private missile-manufacturer Mashinostroyenia—that there is enough of a supply base left to refly them if a market emerges. That market, says Dula, would be privately funded trips to lunar orbit or an Earth-Moon Lagrangian point, where at least one of the stations would be pre-positioned.

Technical details are sketchy. Excalibur Almaz is working with Busek Space Propulsion of Natick, Mass., to obtain Hall-thruster technology to move the stations to cislunar space, Dula says. EADS Astrium of Bremen, Germany, will adapt systems originally developed for the European Space Agency's Automated Transfer Vehicle to outfit the Russian structures.
Dula has a long history working with Russian space companies, going back to the early days of the post-Soviet Russian Federation. His company management includes a couple of cosmonauts, and its list of advisers includes George Abbey, who helped oversee the merger of the U.S. and Russian government space-station efforts as director of Johnson Space Center and a staffer on the old White House Space Council.

Dula says Excalibur Almaz has raised $49 million to reach this point, and is working on “bridge” financing to market its wares. The company has an “expedition” model for financing its operations, with the customers paying for the outfitting and use of the space assets. Dula cites a study he commissioned with Futron Corp. that suggests there are a few dozen potential customers with the funds and interest to buy tickets.

“Do they need a telescope?” he says. “Do they want to mount a tether to drag on the lunar surface to pick up surface samples, do they want to do scientific work in zero gravity? We're just building the expedition.”

Blue Origin received $25.7 million from NASA in the first two rounds of the Commercial Crew Development effort, but did not bid on the Commercial Crew Integrated Capability (CCiCap) round that distributed $1.1 billion among Boeing, Sierra Nevada and SpaceX. It declined comment on whether it will take part in the human-rating competition NASA is running in parallel with the CCiCap development.

In May, company officials said Blue Origin is at work on separate vehicles for two different flight profiles. The New Shepherd suborbital vertical-takeoff-and-landing spacecraft would fly space tourists and scientific researchers and return to a powered landing. An unnamed seven-seat orbital capsule would use the Atlas V to reach space initially, although the company has plans “several years in the future” to build its own partially reusable launch vehicle to propel its human space vehicle to orbit (AW&ST May 7, p. 29).
钓鱼?!
怎么看到一堆的nasa
某国竟然没有鬼鬼鼠鼠的进口前苏联的飞船???
鱼儿马上就来
话说第一段开头就是偌大的NASA
这能算是标题党吗?明明是牛牛宇航局旗下一家公司要搞7艘。。!
不是说啊三锅啊?我还理解错了!!
楼主说的是美国吗?那不如说全世界的火箭始祖是德国人发明的好了,都在山寨吧。
小鳄鱼 发表于 2012-10-12 22:58
楼主说的是美国吗?那不如说全世界的火箭始祖是德国人发明的好了,都在山寨吧。
全世界的火箭始祖是中国人发明的,火箭的科学原理是俄国人研究出来的,和德国人八杆子打不着。
神舟飞船本来就不该模仿人家的布局。把当年钱学森的“曙光”飞船放大一点重新研发不是挺好的吗?其实“曙光”飞船和现在SpaceX的龙式飞船样式有点相近,这种两舱式的才真正实用。
Bearcat 发表于 2012-10-13 10:07
神舟飞船本来就不该模仿人家的布局。把当年钱学森的“曙光”飞船放大一点重新研发不是挺好的吗?其实“曙光 ...
佩服你的勇气。能等到你中意的飞船布局成功了再称赞行吗?
Bearcat 发表于 2012-10-13 10:07
神舟飞船本来就不该模仿人家的布局。把当年钱学森的“曙光”飞船放大一点重新研发不是挺好的吗?其实“曙光 ...
龙式简直就是单舱了,乱七八糟的坛坛罐罐都塞进了返回舱,就是后面一个围壳和电池板要扔掉。这种设计要付出技术和重量上的代价。曙光或921那时的技术条件恐怕不好选择这样的方案。另外没有空间站的情况下,这种结构要想独立完成一些较复杂的试验和任务,前面还需再顶个功能舱段(气阀舱、遥感舱、...),不然就只能大开中门或在返回舱上修改了,实质还是个3舱结构,但规模却比神舟大了一圈。飞长途到是方便,但一时恐怕还用不着,而且长2捆的运力余度也不太够。我觉得参照联盟的设计不失为一种合理的方案。

但空间站完工后,二代飞船确实没必要还搞3舱的,还是大两舱的好些,遇到少数特别任务再顶任务舱。
从双子座开始,美国的飞船就是两舱的,今后的龙、猎户座、CST100也是两舱。。。

rongzhili.au 发表于 2012-10-13 10:17
佩服你的勇气。能等到你中意的飞船布局成功了再称赞行吗?

曙光据说就是山寨双子座的基本设计

目测10艘双子座全部成功

不过,这种布局可能也真就只适合美帝,不适合毛子和土鳖

F44 发表于 2012-10-13 13:21
曙光据说就是山寨双子座的基本设计

目测10艘双子座全部成功
是么,成功了那搞啥阿波罗啊?成功了那进口山寨苏联的联盟号干什么?

rongzhili.au 发表于 2012-10-13 14:15
是么,成功了那搞啥阿波罗啊?成功了那进口山寨苏联的联盟号干什么?
双子座和阿波罗是同一用途么?难道阿波罗不是两舱么?美帝有山寨联盟号么?
rongzhili.au 发表于 2012-10-13 08:59
全世界的火箭始祖是中国人发明的,火箭的科学原理是俄国人研究出来的,和德国人八杆子打不着。
你错了。现代火箭诞生自美国人罗伯特‧高达德将超音速de Laval喷嘴装上液态燃料火箭引擎燃烧室。这种喷嘴将燃烧室中的热气体转成较冷的极超音速喷射气体,使推进力增加超过两倍且巨幅地增加了效率;在此之前,早期的火箭因为热能随气体排放被浪费掉了而相当的没效率。在1926年3月16日,罗伯特‧高达德于美国麻塞诸塞州奥本镇发射了世界第一枚液态燃料火箭。

而齐奥尔科夫斯基只是俄罗斯和苏联的火箭专家和宇航先驱而已。

rongzhili.au 发表于 2012-10-13 14:15
是么,成功了那搞啥阿波罗啊?成功了那进口山寨苏联的联盟号干什么?


你有阅读障碍吧?那文章讲什么的你看不明白?
rongzhili.au 发表于 2012-10-13 14:15
是么,成功了那搞啥阿波罗啊?成功了那进口山寨苏联的联盟号干什么?


你有阅读障碍吧?那文章讲什么的你看不明白?
  兰州烧饼!
ericcui1 发表于 2012-10-13 15:28
你有阅读障碍吧?那文章讲什么的你看不明白?
你有阅读障碍吧?lz标题讲什么的你看不明白?
pafupafu 发表于 2012-10-14 10:14
你有阅读障碍吧?lz标题讲什么的你看不明白?
楼主讲的和他贴的文章意思想去甚远……
ericcui1 发表于 2012-10-14 10:18
楼主讲的和他贴的文章意思想去甚远……
哪句和文章讲的不一样?
rongzhili.au 发表于 2012-10-14 10:35
哪句和文章讲的不一样?
进口的是飞船么?;P
ericcui1 发表于 2012-10-14 10:42
进口的是飞船么?
看来你真的看不懂。
拿这文章问问你身边的母语为英语的朋友,进口的是不是苏联飞船,
特别是这两个词是啥意思:

Soviet Gear
楼主有标题党嫌疑

rongzhili.au 发表于 2012-10-14 10:47
看来你真的看不懂。
拿这文章问问你身边的母语为英语的朋友,进口的是不是苏联飞船,
特别是这两个词是 ...


第一,进口的不是飞船,而是5个返回舱和2个礼炮空间站的实验舱段。
第二,进口方不是美国,而是英国一家私人宇航公司,致力于推广太空游……;P
实际上人家就是想利用俄国旧货搞太空游……{:soso_e120:}

这公司确实去竞争过NASA的商业载人航天项目,不过没有得到过任何形式的合同和资助……。想修修俄国旧货就去骗银子罢了……{:soso_e108:}
rongzhili.au 发表于 2012-10-14 10:47
看来你真的看不懂。
拿这文章问问你身边的母语为英语的朋友,进口的是不是苏联飞船,
特别是这两个词是 ...


第一,进口的不是飞船,而是5个返回舱和2个礼炮空间站的实验舱段。
第二,进口方不是美国,而是英国一家私人宇航公司,致力于推广太空游……;P
实际上人家就是想利用俄国旧货搞太空游……{:soso_e120:}

这公司确实去竞争过NASA的商业载人航天项目,不过没有得到过任何形式的合同和资助……。想修修俄国旧货就去骗银子罢了……{:soso_e108:}
ericcui1 发表于 2012-10-14 10:51
第一,进口的不是飞船,而是5个返回舱和2个礼炮空间站的实验舱段。
第二,进口方不是美国,而是英国一家 ...
我对你的第一无言以对,你实在。。。
你的第二么,请你找个懂英语的帮你看看文章的这一段:
They are as different as night and day. Secretive Blue Origin is drawing on the deep private pockets of Amazon.com founder Jeff Bezos to build human spacecraft for the prospective orbital and suborbital markets, carefully concealing his company's activities from prying eyes at a closed factory near Seattle and a remote test site in West Texas.
rongzhili.au 发表于 2012-10-14 11:04
我对你的第一无言以对,你实在。。。
你的第二么,请你找个懂英语的帮你看看文章的这一段:
They are a ...
这段说的就不是一个事情……;P
买俄国返回舱的是另一家公司……


兰州搞清楚Blue Origin和 Excalibur Almaz有神马联系了么?这两个公司和NASA有什么联系兰州弄明白了么?

兰州搞清楚Blue Origin和 Excalibur Almaz有神马联系了么?这两个公司和NASA有什么联系兰州弄明白了么?
标题党+断章取义,楼主你不当娱记可惜了。
ericcui1 发表于 2012-10-14 11:07
这段说的就不是一个事情……
买俄国返回舱的是另一家公司……
这说的是同一回事,但是出面的的确是两个公司
Excalibur Almaz是英国注册的公司,但是老板是美国人,进口的飞船是在该公司在得克萨斯州休士顿的场地,该公司竞标的也是美国的nasa。

rongzhili.au 发表于 2012-10-14 11:26
这说的是同一回事,但是出面的的确是两个公司
Excalibur Almaz是英国注册的公司,但是老板是美国人,进口 ...


这两家公司同时出现在这个文章里的原因是它们都没拿NASA的钱,除此之外,它们和NASA,它们两个之间,都没有任何关系。
rongzhili.au 发表于 2012-10-14 11:26
这说的是同一回事,但是出面的的确是两个公司
Excalibur Almaz是英国注册的公司,但是老板是美国人,进口 ...


这两家公司同时出现在这个文章里的原因是它们都没拿NASA的钱,除此之外,它们和NASA,它们两个之间,都没有任何关系。

rongzhili.au 发表于 2012-10-14 11:26
这说的是同一回事,但是出面的的确是两个公司
Excalibur Almaz是英国注册的公司,但是老板是美国人,进口 ...


Excalibur Almaz是英国注册的公司,但是老板是美国人,进口的飞船是在该公司在得克萨斯州休士顿的场地,
_________________________________________________________________________
说你有阅读障碍还不信;P。Blue Orign在得克萨斯。Excalibur Almaz本身就在曼恩岛,其设施在曼恩岛,其进口的俄国设备也在曼恩岛。


Space Stations Arrive on the Isle of Man
http://www.excaliburalmaz.com/pdf/EA_press_release_01-05-2011.pdf
rongzhili.au 发表于 2012-10-14 11:26
这说的是同一回事,但是出面的的确是两个公司
Excalibur Almaz是英国注册的公司,但是老板是美国人,进口 ...


Excalibur Almaz是英国注册的公司,但是老板是美国人,进口的飞船是在该公司在得克萨斯州休士顿的场地,
_________________________________________________________________________
说你有阅读障碍还不信;P。Blue Orign在得克萨斯。Excalibur Almaz本身就在曼恩岛,其设施在曼恩岛,其进口的俄国设备也在曼恩岛。


Space Stations Arrive on the Isle of Man
http://www.excaliburalmaz.com/pdf/EA_press_release_01-05-2011.pdf
ericcui1 发表于 2012-10-14 11:28
这两家公司同时出现在这个文章里的原因是它们都没拿NASA的钱,初次之外,它们和NASA,它们两个之间,都没 ...
我实在搞不懂你,文章里写的明明白白的事,你凭空否认管啥用啊?

第一个公司是大名鼎鼎的亚马逊,网络赚了大钱,投资在第二家公司,休士顿的Excalibur_Almaz进口了7艘苏联飞船搞载人航天。
这第二家公司和nasa的关系可以从下面的维基百科看到:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excalibur_Almaz

rongzhili.au 发表于 2012-10-14 11:36
我实在搞不懂你,文章里写的明明白白的事,你凭空否认管啥用啊?

第一个公司是大名鼎鼎的亚马逊,网络 ...


亚马逊投资的是Blue Orign;P
是Blue Orign在休斯敦。Excalibur Almaz在曼恩岛。

你贴东西前自己看过么?
rongzhili.au 发表于 2012-10-14 11:36
我实在搞不懂你,文章里写的明明白白的事,你凭空否认管啥用啊?

第一个公司是大名鼎鼎的亚马逊,网络 ...


亚马逊投资的是Blue Orign;P
是Blue Orign在休斯敦。Excalibur Almaz在曼恩岛。

你贴东西前自己看过么?
ericcui1 发表于 2012-10-14 11:32
Excalibur Almaz是英国注册的公司,但是老板是美国人,进口的飞船是在该公司在得克萨斯州休士顿的场地, ...
这只不过是从俄国到美国的途中罢了,你该不会以为英国,或者那曼恩岛可以发射载人飞船吧?
美国航空周刊的这文章说的很清楚,钱是美国公司的,老板是美国人,公司的活动也在美国,最后争取的市场和政府资金也是美国的。

rongzhili.au 发表于 2012-10-14 11:45
这只不过是从俄国到美国的途中罢了,你该不会以为英国,或者那曼恩岛可以发射载人飞船吧?
美国航空周刊 ...


别撸了:sleepy:
Blue Orign和Excalibur Almaz从来就没有拿到过任何政府资金。Excalibur Almaz的几乎所有设施都在曼恩岛,他们准备让俄国人替他们发射飞船……;P



回到你贴的文章:“While most of the commercial crew vehicles under development in the post-shuttle era got their starts with NASA seed money, a couple of companies are seriously working on crew vehicles without a major role for Uncle Sam. ”
你看明白了么?
rongzhili.au 发表于 2012-10-14 11:45
这只不过是从俄国到美国的途中罢了,你该不会以为英国,或者那曼恩岛可以发射载人飞船吧?
美国航空周刊 ...


别撸了:sleepy:
Blue Orign和Excalibur Almaz从来就没有拿到过任何政府资金。Excalibur Almaz的几乎所有设施都在曼恩岛,他们准备让俄国人替他们发射飞船……;P

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2012-10-14 11:48 上传




回到你贴的文章:“While most of the commercial crew vehicles under development in the post-shuttle era got their starts with NASA seed money, a couple of companies are seriously working on crew vehicles without a major role for Uncle Sam. ”
你看明白了么?
ericcui1 发表于 2012-10-14 11:47
别撸了
Blue Orign和Excalibur Almaz从来就没有拿到过任何政府资金。Excalibur Almaz的几乎所 ...
你和美国航空周刊打官司吧,不行就在曼恩岛发载人火箭。。。

你和美国航空周刊打官司吧,不行就在曼恩岛发载人火箭。。。
人家航空周刊说的一点没错。但是你的阅读能力问题大了。