小巴欲强买F60，转自龙腾(pupu76楼亲自出来辟谣）

http://www.ltaaa.com/wtfy/4915.html

1. rcrmj（中国 中国）（译注：前者为国家或地区，后者为所在地）
Re: The new SAC 5 generationstealth fighter？
I just spent one hour on this thread
pupu

回复：新的沈飞五代隐形战机？

我只花一个小时在这个话题上。


Pupu

the 'insider' pupu says thatPLAAF will not induct F-60, as it is primary designed for Navy and exportpurposes (he didnt mention Pakistan)....the F-60 primary emphazies on stealth, then weapon capacity and range,manuvability is at the last``!!! and he also mentioned that F-60 is not theonly stealth project going on at SAC, there is going to be another one, aslightly logner (18m) medium weight stealth fighters to compliment CAC's J-20to dominate future sky```!!!
内部人士‘PUPU’说，中国人民解放军空军不会装备F-60，由于它最开始是为了海军和出口（他没提巴基斯坦）而设计…F-60重点强调隐身性然后是载弹量和航程，机动性是最后考虑的东西！！！他也提到F-60不是沈飞唯一上马的隐形机工程，还有另外一个，一个稍微长点的（18m）中型隐形战机来辅助成飞的J-20，共同支配未来的天空！！！

he sateted that CAC is also deveoping a navyversion J-20 (smaller size and weight) to compete with SAC's F-60 for PLAN'saircraft carrier's aircraft`````!!

他说成飞也在开发一种海军版的J-20（体积和重量更小）与成飞的F-60竞争上航母！！




2. rcrmj（中国 中国）

China has a long tradition of focusing on agility andmaneuverbility, why all of sudden they put them as the last elements when designingF-60``?? stealthness, weapon load and range are aggression aspects of afighter```

中国有很长的注重灵活性和机动性的传统，为什么在设计F-60的时候突然把他们放在最次要位置？？隐身性，载弹量和航程对战斗机来说是进攻要素。





3.revu(印度尼西亚 印度尼西亚)

Well, IMO it was for export, nalot of country would want a 5th gen fighter that close to a F-22.
The shape it self already similar with F-22 andF-35, it will attract a lot of country. N it will be aclear win for SAC if their second 5th gen fighter will be a plane thatlooks like a Pak-fa, with flat fuselage.

回复#2：

嗯，在我看来，它是出口用的。很多的国家想要类似F-22的第五代战斗机。

外形本身已经看起来像F-22和F-35了，它对很多国家来说有吸引力。如果沈飞的第二款五代机看起来像T-50，有扁平机身的话，沈飞会赢得一大胜利。





4. skyknight（中国 中国）

So Pakistan Airforce will havetwo choices in 10 years， F-60 from SAC and the J-2x from CAC.

所以巴基斯坦空军在十年之后会有两个选择，沈飞的F-60和成飞的J-2x。





5. shahzadasweet（挪威 加拿大）

i hope we buy both

回复#4：

我希望两样都买。





6. rcrmj（中国 中国）

it is not necessary forfinancially limited Pakistan,the wise choice is to choose the most suitable ones````i believe J-2x from CACis more suitable, as it is more agile and manueverable and ideal for AAcombat````whereas, according to pupu F-60 is too aggressive (stealth, weaponcapacity and range)....

回复#5：

对于财政紧张的巴基斯坦来说不必要，明智的选择是选择最适合的那款…我相信成飞的J-2x更适合，因为它更敏捷灵活，单挑很理想。然而，据pupu所说，F-60太有侵略性了（隐身，载弹量和航程）…





7. SinoSoldier（中国 加拿大）

What about the heavy fifthgeneration fighter from 601? It would give Pakistan a serious advantage tomost other South Asian air forces.
回复#6：

601所的重型第五代战机怎么样，他会让巴基斯坦在南亚拥有压倒性的空中优势。





8. SamranAli（巴基斯坦 巴基斯坦）

yes J -2x will be more betterfor Pakistan.
Is there another 5th gen fighter other than J-2x and F-60?

是的，J-2x更适合巴基斯坦。

回复#7：

除了J-2x 和F-60还有另外一个五代机吗？





9. SinoSoldier（中国 加拿大）

J-20 and an unnamed one being built

回复#8：

J-20和另一款不知名战机正在被研制。




10. S10（中国加拿大）

SAC funded this project out oftheir own pocket mostly, and can be seen as their attempts to turn the table.CAC is stealing their thunder through J-10, JF-17 and J-20. Meanwhile, SAC isin a tough spot since they only have the Flanker series to play with (J-11B,J-15, J-16).
If they don't lock up that navy contract tight,it's the end of the road for them as a first tier arms developer.

这个项目大部分是沈飞自掏腰包，可以被看做是他们扭转局面的尝试。成飞通过J-10，JF-17和J-20抢走了他们的风头。同时，沈飞处于一种尴尬的境地，他们只能玩侧卫系列（J-11B, J-15, J-16）。

如果他们不能紧紧抓住海军的合同，那就会是他们作为一线武器研发部门的末路了。





11. sohailbarki（巴基斯坦）

IS there any concept sketch ofthis aircraft ? can someone post it.

有这种飞机任何概念轮廓吗？有人能贴出来么？





12 rcrmj（中国 中国）

no, there are only two 5th genfighter from SAC, so it will be J-2x if PAF is really interested
I do not know, but by goingthrough that forum, i am getting the idea that since SAC lost heavy 5th genproject to CAC, so it is very likely SAC is going to develop a medium weight5th gen rather than heavier ones```
because according to insiders, CAC's J-20 isnation's top prioroty project which will serve as the prime fighter of PLAAF,but at the meantime PLAAF also need a lower-end 5th gen fighter to complimentit

回复#8：

不，沈飞只有两种五代机，如果巴基斯坦军队有兴趣的话，我想会是J-2x。

回复#7：

我不知道，但是翻看那个论坛，我得知由于沈飞在重型五代机上输给了成飞，所以沈飞更可能研发一种中型五代而并非重型。

因为据内部人士讲，成飞的J-20是国家的最优先项目，它会成为解放军空军的主力，但是同时，解放军空军也需要一种低端的五代机来辅助。





13. tvsram1992（印度 印度）

How many 5th gen aircraftprojects are handled by China? China is intelligent ,they might produce some thing like Jf17 specially for Pakistan to satisfy and cool them .

中国到底在搞多少种五代机？中国很聪明，他们可能像JF-17那样专门为巴基斯坦生产一些东西来满足他们，使他们冷静。





14. rcrmj（中国 中国）

I dont have it, and the forumdoesnt have it neither, because no one (the wall climbing enthusiastists donthave any atm) has it, and the insiders wont show it```
this is the cloest we can get and it is verylikely to he F-60



honestly no one knows```but theknown ones are CAC's J-20 (currently flying) and the SAC's F-60 (the one on thetruck)````
even insiders are saying there are at least 4including J-20 and F-60, but it could be camoflash to creat 'smoke' to puzzleU.S.A's intellegence or others

回复#11：

我没有，论坛里也没有，因为没人（爬墙爱好者没有收获）有，内部人士不可能展示给我们看的。

这个是我们能看到的展示，它很可能是F-60。



回复#13：

坦白说没人知道，但是被人所知的是成飞的J-20（当前在试飞）和沈飞的F-60（卡车上那个）。

甚至内部人士说包括J-20 和F-60至少有四种，但是也可能是烟雾弹来迷惑美军智囊和其他人。





15. Pakistanisage（巴基斯坦 美国）

Don't worry about us , Genius.
We Pakistanis are pretty COOL already...

回复#13：

别担心我们，天才

我们巴基斯坦人已经很cool了…





16. tvsram1992（印度 印度）

Is J20 and JXX same ?

回复#14：

J20和JXX是一回事么？





17. skyknight（中国 中国）

No, J20 is from CAC,
the Jxx maybe from SAC or CAC, it‘s only a 5-genproject code name。

回复#16：

不是，J20 来自成飞。

JXX来自沈飞成飞说不准，它只是一个五代机项目的代号。





18. rcrmj（中国 中国）

no``JXX is temp name for allunknown fighter projects in China``
回复#16：

不是，JXX是中国所有未知战斗机项目的临时代号。





19. cb4（巴基斯坦 加拿大）












20. tvsram1992（印度 印度）

I thought XX(roman)=20 so JXXis J20 . Other meaning was 'X' is used to represent unknown and secret justlike USAdoes ...

回复#17、#18：

我认为XX（罗马数字）=20，所以JXX是J20 。其他的意思是‘X’被用来代表未知和机密，像美国那样…





21. cb4（巴基斯坦 加拿大）

Any additional information onthe J2-X? Will it be called JF-17 Block 3 or will it be somethingvery new?
回复#4：

有关于J2X的其他信息么？它被称为JF-17Block 3或是别的新名字？




22. skyknight（中国中国）

Before the J-20 came out，the outside called the unknown Chinese5-gen project as ：JXX， which was considered under development
in SAC。
China never officially name the 5-gen project as"J-XX", it is only a code name created by the outside,
which could explained as all the unknown 5-genaircraft being developed by SAC or CAC。
回复#20：

在J20出来之前，外界把中国的未知五代机项目称作JXX，被认为在沈飞研发。

中国从来没有官方命名五代机项目为“JXX”的，只是被外界起的代号，可以解释为所有沈飞和成飞研发的未知五代机。





23. skyknight（中国 中国）

The insiders in Chinesemilitary forum said CAC is developing J-10C and also a medium stealth fighterfor export is planned,
JF-17 is too small ，no potential to be improved to a stealthfight（it is too difficult to installa weaponbay）。
回复#21：

中国军坛的内部人士说成飞正在研发J-10C和一种出口的中型隐形战斗机也在计划里。

JF-17太小了，没有可以改装成隐形战斗机的潜力（装个武器舱太难了）





24. Nishan_101（巴基斯坦 巴基斯坦）

Due to too much US presence in PAKISTANI think that China mightlimit its technology and equipment supply to Pakistan. Can you tell me thatthose JF-17 that had arrived from China10-12 as well as those made in PAC are funded by China??? Some details please.

由于巴基斯坦内部太多美国压力，我认为中国可能限制技术和装备出口到巴基斯坦。你能告诉我那些2010-12期间中国交付，还有在巴基斯坦制造的那些JF-17是中国援助的吗？请告诉我一些细节。





25. cirr（中国 中国）

“F-60” is passe。Let's look forward to what SAC has to offernext。
You guys won't have to wait long.

“f-60”过时了，让我们向前看看沈飞下一个会推出什么。

你们这些家伙不用等太久的。





26. rcrmj（中国 中国）

are you one of the insiders??

回复#25：

你是内部人士之一么？？





27. DrSomnath999（印度 印度）

no he is from our indiam forumDF 1
回复#26：

不，他来自我们印度论坛DF 1.





28. Tshering22（印度 印度）

Well let's see which of thesejets win the government contract.
好吧，让我们看看那一架都会赢得政府订单。





29. rcrmj（中国 中国）

J-20 will win a contract fromgovernment for sure``dont know about SAC's J-2X and F-60 (depending on wetherF-60 can win the hearts of Navy people, and foreign buyers, because pupuclearly said PLAAF wont induct F-60)
and SAC's J-2X not sure as it has to competewith CAC's medium sized J-20 version``

J-20肯定会赢得政府合同，不知道沈飞的J-2X和F-60（取决于F-60是否能赢得海军和国外买家的心，因为pupu明确说过解放军空军不会装备F-60）





30. graphican（巴基斯坦澳大利亚）

Pakistan would at-least go for another single engine version . SoJ2-X is more likely winner than F-60.

回复#4：

巴基斯坦还需要至少一种单发版本。所以J2-X比起F-60更适合。







32. SinoSoldier（中国加拿大）

From what it seems, the Navyand Air Force are doing separate contracts. SAC is building the J-21 for exportand the Navy, but also seems to have received funding for a heavy fifth generationfighter. CAC on the other hand seems to have received funding firsthand for theJ-20, but is unknown for the single engine variant.
Then wouldn't it make perfectsense to induct the J-21 rather than to build a brand new fighter of the sameweight class? Huzhigeng did mention a fighter with WS-15 engines, so itdefinitely points to heavyweight class.
Currently four:
- CAC J-20
- CAC J-2X
- SAC J-21
- SAC ????
The J-2X will be competing withthe J-21 for the Navy contract while the J-20 will compete or complement theJ-XX for the Air Force contract.

回复#10：

从可能的情况来看，海军和空军分别订采购合同。沈飞为海军和出口建造J21，但是似乎也因重型五代机得到了拨款。另一方面，成飞似乎因为J20直接得到了拨款，但是单发的衍生型号不清楚。



回复#12：

那么采购J21不比重新制造一种新型的同一级别战斗机感觉更好吗？Huzhigeng没提装配WS-15发动机的战机，所以它肯定指的是重型的。



回复#13：

现有的四个：

- 成飞 J-20
- 成飞 J-2X
- 沈飞 J-21
- 沈飞 ????



回复#29：

J2X与J21竞争海军的合同，J20会与JXX竞争或者配合空军的合同。





33. tvsram1992（印度印度）

Any thing specially for Pakistan likeJf17 ? I knew Chinawill not give them sensitive tech . What about stealth version of Jf17 ?

回复#32：

有像JF17一样为巴基斯坦特别准备的吗？我知道中国不会给他们敏感技术。JF17的隐身版本怎么样？



34. shahzadasweet（挪威 加拿大）

lol my dear when china startedthis program they asked pakistan to join in it lol =))) it was pakistan whosaid no its not russia or us who dont give their best to tech to their friends

回复#33：

LOL，亲爱的，当中国启动这个项目的时候，他们就邀请巴基斯坦参加了LOL=））），是巴基斯坦拒绝了。它不是俄罗斯或者美国那种不把最好的技术给朋友。



35. krash（巴基斯坦 巴基斯坦）

You mean the way they've alwaysdone?

回复￥33：

你是指他们已经在做的吗？



36. SinoSoldier（中国 加拿大）

The Chengdu J-2Xis slated for Pakistan.

回复#33：

成都的J2X是为巴基斯坦的。



37.eachus（美国 中国）



if this is a very stealthyfighter selling at price around $40m? guess what happen to the internationalmarket? It is lower price 5G for the 3rd world countries. Russia and F35will have hard time to sell.

如果这真是一款售价4000万美元的隐形战机，猜猜国际市场会发生什么？它对第三世界国家来说有着更优惠的价格。俄罗斯和F35卖出去会变难。



38. rcrmj（中国中国）

WS-15 can be used for singleengined fighter, because its maximum trust will be 18T when its in servicewhich is enough for small and medium sized multi-rollfighter


F-60 from SAC is for navycontract (until now we still dont know whether J-21 is chinese designation forF-60, or it is the designation for SAC's J-2X).....and SAC's J-2X is not incompetition with CAC's J-20, as SAC lost the heavy stealth fighter competitiondecade ago...

PuPu said , SAC's is developing a medium weightlower-end 5th gen to compliment J-20````so there is no such competion betweenJ-20 and SAC's J-2X

回复#32：

WS15可以用于单发战斗机，因为它工作时的最大推力是18吨，对于小型和中型的足够用了。

沈飞的F60是为了海军订单（知道现在我们还不知道J21是否是F60的中国代号，或者是沈飞J3X的代号），而且沈飞的J2x不是与成飞的J20竞争的，由于沈飞十几年前输掉了了重型隐形战机的竞争

Pupu说，沈飞正在研发一款重型低端五代来配合J20，所以J20和沈飞的J2X之间不存在这样的竞争。





39. rcrmj（中国 中国）

$40 m wont be possible, J-10Bis around that price ATM```and with RMB appriciation, i wont be surprised ifthat price is well over $60m

回复#37：

4000万美元不可能，J10B现在大概是那个价格，随着人民币升值，价格升到6000万美元以上我也不会惊奇。



42 UKBengali（孟加拉国 英国）.

I think around 70-80 millionsdollars.
Remember that China will be going for the highestperformance possible in order to be able to compete with the F-35 and PAK-FA.
It will still be signifanctly cheaper than bothPAK-FA and especially F-35.

回复#39：

我认为会在7000-8000万美元。

记住一点，中国会追求最好的可能的性能，为了能够与F35和T50竞争。

它仍会比T50和F35都便宜很多。



43.rcrmh（中国 中国）

it will be significentlycheaper than F-35 for sure, but not much from PAK-FA as I believe...theinsiders never talked alot about russian planes recently, but always using USfighters as the 'benchmarks'````i guess those SAC guys knew the best of Russianplanes true capability and quality (since SAC have been reverse engineringFlankers for 2 decades) ..
so they are quite confident about competing withPAK-FA, price is definitly not the issue

回复#42：

肯定比F35要便宜很多，但是我相信比起T50不会便宜太多。内部人士最近都没有谈论俄罗斯飞机太多，但是经常用美国飞机当标杆。我才那些沈飞的家伙最清楚俄罗斯的飞机真材实料（由于沈飞装配侧卫系列20年了）

所以他们相当有自信能与T50竞争，价格竞争是当然的但不是重点。



44. UKBengali（孟加拉国 英国）

What is your opinion on thequailty of Russian Avionics?
Will the avionics on the PAK-FA be truly 5thgeneration or merely just very good 4th generation?

回复#44：

你对俄罗斯航空电子设备的质量怎么看？

T50上的航电设备是真正的五代还是基本只是很好的四代？



45. manofwar（印度印度）

This aircraft has enormouspotential, especially for export......................but for that China needs animage revamp.It's being isolated for a long time causes only a few to buyChinese military exports. That is why only a couple large countries haveexpressed interest in them..........
Opening a Chinaup bit more to the world will improve the way world percieves China, and eventhe West will stop seeing it as a threat. This will lead to profit foreverybody

这款飞机拥有很大的潜力，特别是出口……但是为了实现，中国需要改头换面。它已经被孤立很长时间了，导致只有几个国家买中国的出口武器。那也就是为什么只有几个大国对他们表现出兴趣……

让中国对世界更开放一点会让世界对中国的印象更好。甚至西方也会不再把中国视为威胁。这对每个人都有好处。



46 rcrmj（中国 中国）
as long as the west and Indianstill see us as 'commi'````no matter what we do, they will still think we arepossing threat to them
no idea``I am not experts onthat``but just based on PuPu or other insiders, the only two aspects that Chinanow has clear cut advantage over Russia is avionics and AESA radar```andstill```these are just their opinion...whether you believe it or not, itsentirely up to you````

回复#45：

只要西方和印度将我们视为共产中国，不管我们做什么，他们仍会认为我们在威胁他们。



回复#44：

不知道，我不是那方面专家，但是据pupu或者其他内部人士所说，中国对俄罗斯有明显优势的的仅有的两个方面是航电和有源相控阵雷达。这些只是他们的见解，你相不相信，全靠你自己决定。


http://www.ltaaa.com/wtfy/4915.html

1. rcrmj（中国 中国）（译注：前者为国家或地区，后者为所在地）
Re: The new SAC 5 generationstealth fighter？
I just spent one hour on this thread
pupu

回复：新的沈飞五代隐形战机？

我只花一个小时在这个话题上。


Pupu

the 'insider' pupu says thatPLAAF will not induct F-60, as it is primary designed for Navy and exportpurposes (he didnt mention Pakistan)....the F-60 primary emphazies on stealth, then weapon capacity and range,manuvability is at the last``!!! and he also mentioned that F-60 is not theonly stealth project going on at SAC, there is going to be another one, aslightly logner (18m) medium weight stealth fighters to compliment CAC's J-20to dominate future sky```!!!
内部人士‘PUPU’说，中国人民解放军空军不会装备F-60，由于它最开始是为了海军和出口（他没提巴基斯坦）而设计…F-60重点强调隐身性然后是载弹量和航程，机动性是最后考虑的东西！！！他也提到F-60不是沈飞唯一上马的隐形机工程，还有另外一个，一个稍微长点的（18m）中型隐形战机来辅助成飞的J-20，共同支配未来的天空！！！

he sateted that CAC is also deveoping a navyversion J-20 (smaller size and weight) to compete with SAC's F-60 for PLAN'saircraft carrier's aircraft`````!!

他说成飞也在开发一种海军版的J-20（体积和重量更小）与成飞的F-60竞争上航母！！




2. rcrmj（中国 中国）

China has a long tradition of focusing on agility andmaneuverbility, why all of sudden they put them as the last elements when designingF-60``?? stealthness, weapon load and range are aggression aspects of afighter```

中国有很长的注重灵活性和机动性的传统，为什么在设计F-60的时候突然把他们放在最次要位置？？隐身性，载弹量和航程对战斗机来说是进攻要素。





3.revu(印度尼西亚 印度尼西亚)

Well, IMO it was for export, nalot of country would want a 5th gen fighter that close to a F-22.
The shape it self already similar with F-22 andF-35, it will attract a lot of country. N it will be aclear win for SAC if their second 5th gen fighter will be a plane thatlooks like a Pak-fa, with flat fuselage.

回复#2：

嗯，在我看来，它是出口用的。很多的国家想要类似F-22的第五代战斗机。

外形本身已经看起来像F-22和F-35了，它对很多国家来说有吸引力。如果沈飞的第二款五代机看起来像T-50，有扁平机身的话，沈飞会赢得一大胜利。





4. skyknight（中国 中国）

So Pakistan Airforce will havetwo choices in 10 years， F-60 from SAC and the J-2x from CAC.

所以巴基斯坦空军在十年之后会有两个选择，沈飞的F-60和成飞的J-2x。





5. shahzadasweet（挪威 加拿大）

i hope we buy both

回复#4：

我希望两样都买。





6. rcrmj（中国 中国）

it is not necessary forfinancially limited Pakistan,the wise choice is to choose the most suitable ones````i believe J-2x from CACis more suitable, as it is more agile and manueverable and ideal for AAcombat````whereas, according to pupu F-60 is too aggressive (stealth, weaponcapacity and range)....

回复#5：

对于财政紧张的巴基斯坦来说不必要，明智的选择是选择最适合的那款…我相信成飞的J-2x更适合，因为它更敏捷灵活，单挑很理想。然而，据pupu所说，F-60太有侵略性了（隐身，载弹量和航程）…





7. SinoSoldier（中国 加拿大）

What about the heavy fifthgeneration fighter from 601? It would give Pakistan a serious advantage tomost other South Asian air forces.
回复#6：

601所的重型第五代战机怎么样，他会让巴基斯坦在南亚拥有压倒性的空中优势。





8. SamranAli（巴基斯坦 巴基斯坦）

yes J -2x will be more betterfor Pakistan.
Is there another 5th gen fighter other than J-2x and F-60?

是的，J-2x更适合巴基斯坦。

回复#7：

除了J-2x 和F-60还有另外一个五代机吗？





9. SinoSoldier（中国 加拿大）

J-20 and an unnamed one being built

回复#8：

J-20和另一款不知名战机正在被研制。




10. S10（中国加拿大）

SAC funded this project out oftheir own pocket mostly, and can be seen as their attempts to turn the table.CAC is stealing their thunder through J-10, JF-17 and J-20. Meanwhile, SAC isin a tough spot since they only have the Flanker series to play with (J-11B,J-15, J-16).
If they don't lock up that navy contract tight,it's the end of the road for them as a first tier arms developer.

这个项目大部分是沈飞自掏腰包，可以被看做是他们扭转局面的尝试。成飞通过J-10，JF-17和J-20抢走了他们的风头。同时，沈飞处于一种尴尬的境地，他们只能玩侧卫系列（J-11B, J-15, J-16）。

如果他们不能紧紧抓住海军的合同，那就会是他们作为一线武器研发部门的末路了。





11. sohailbarki（巴基斯坦）

IS there any concept sketch ofthis aircraft ? can someone post it.

有这种飞机任何概念轮廓吗？有人能贴出来么？





12 rcrmj（中国 中国）

no, there are only two 5th genfighter from SAC, so it will be J-2x if PAF is really interested
I do not know, but by goingthrough that forum, i am getting the idea that since SAC lost heavy 5th genproject to CAC, so it is very likely SAC is going to develop a medium weight5th gen rather than heavier ones```
because according to insiders, CAC's J-20 isnation's top prioroty project which will serve as the prime fighter of PLAAF,but at the meantime PLAAF also need a lower-end 5th gen fighter to complimentit

回复#8：

不，沈飞只有两种五代机，如果巴基斯坦军队有兴趣的话，我想会是J-2x。

回复#7：

我不知道，但是翻看那个论坛，我得知由于沈飞在重型五代机上输给了成飞，所以沈飞更可能研发一种中型五代而并非重型。

因为据内部人士讲，成飞的J-20是国家的最优先项目，它会成为解放军空军的主力，但是同时，解放军空军也需要一种低端的五代机来辅助。





13. tvsram1992（印度 印度）

How many 5th gen aircraftprojects are handled by China? China is intelligent ,they might produce some thing like Jf17 specially for Pakistan to satisfy and cool them .

中国到底在搞多少种五代机？中国很聪明，他们可能像JF-17那样专门为巴基斯坦生产一些东西来满足他们，使他们冷静。





14. rcrmj（中国 中国）

I dont have it, and the forumdoesnt have it neither, because no one (the wall climbing enthusiastists donthave any atm) has it, and the insiders wont show it```
this is the cloest we can get and it is verylikely to he F-60



honestly no one knows```but theknown ones are CAC's J-20 (currently flying) and the SAC's F-60 (the one on thetruck)````
even insiders are saying there are at least 4including J-20 and F-60, but it could be camoflash to creat 'smoke' to puzzleU.S.A's intellegence or others

回复#11：

我没有，论坛里也没有，因为没人（爬墙爱好者没有收获）有，内部人士不可能展示给我们看的。

这个是我们能看到的展示，它很可能是F-60。



回复#13：

坦白说没人知道，但是被人所知的是成飞的J-20（当前在试飞）和沈飞的F-60（卡车上那个）。

甚至内部人士说包括J-20 和F-60至少有四种，但是也可能是烟雾弹来迷惑美军智囊和其他人。





15. Pakistanisage（巴基斯坦 美国）

Don't worry about us , Genius.
We Pakistanis are pretty COOL already...

回复#13：

别担心我们，天才

我们巴基斯坦人已经很cool了…





16. tvsram1992（印度 印度）

Is J20 and JXX same ?

回复#14：

J20和JXX是一回事么？





17. skyknight（中国 中国）

No, J20 is from CAC,
the Jxx maybe from SAC or CAC, it‘s only a 5-genproject code name。

回复#16：

不是，J20 来自成飞。

JXX来自沈飞成飞说不准，它只是一个五代机项目的代号。





18. rcrmj（中国 中国）

no``JXX is temp name for allunknown fighter projects in China``
回复#16：

不是，JXX是中国所有未知战斗机项目的临时代号。





19. cb4（巴基斯坦 加拿大）












20. tvsram1992（印度 印度）

I thought XX(roman)=20 so JXXis J20 . Other meaning was 'X' is used to represent unknown and secret justlike USAdoes ...

回复#17、#18：

我认为XX（罗马数字）=20，所以JXX是J20 。其他的意思是‘X’被用来代表未知和机密，像美国那样…





21. cb4（巴基斯坦 加拿大）

Any additional information onthe J2-X? Will it be called JF-17 Block 3 or will it be somethingvery new?
回复#4：

有关于J2X的其他信息么？它被称为JF-17Block 3或是别的新名字？




22. skyknight（中国中国）

Before the J-20 came out，the outside called the unknown Chinese5-gen project as ：JXX， which was considered under development
in SAC。
China never officially name the 5-gen project as"J-XX", it is only a code name created by the outside,
which could explained as all the unknown 5-genaircraft being developed by SAC or CAC。
回复#20：

在J20出来之前，外界把中国的未知五代机项目称作JXX，被认为在沈飞研发。

中国从来没有官方命名五代机项目为“JXX”的，只是被外界起的代号，可以解释为所有沈飞和成飞研发的未知五代机。





23. skyknight（中国 中国）

The insiders in Chinesemilitary forum said CAC is developing J-10C and also a medium stealth fighterfor export is planned,
JF-17 is too small ，no potential to be improved to a stealthfight（it is too difficult to installa weaponbay）。
回复#21：

中国军坛的内部人士说成飞正在研发J-10C和一种出口的中型隐形战斗机也在计划里。

JF-17太小了，没有可以改装成隐形战斗机的潜力（装个武器舱太难了）





24. Nishan_101（巴基斯坦 巴基斯坦）

Due to too much US presence in PAKISTANI think that China mightlimit its technology and equipment supply to Pakistan. Can you tell me thatthose JF-17 that had arrived from China10-12 as well as those made in PAC are funded by China??? Some details please.

由于巴基斯坦内部太多美国压力，我认为中国可能限制技术和装备出口到巴基斯坦。你能告诉我那些2010-12期间中国交付，还有在巴基斯坦制造的那些JF-17是中国援助的吗？请告诉我一些细节。





25. cirr（中国 中国）

“F-60” is passe。Let's look forward to what SAC has to offernext。
You guys won't have to wait long.

“f-60”过时了，让我们向前看看沈飞下一个会推出什么。

你们这些家伙不用等太久的。





26. rcrmj（中国 中国）

are you one of the insiders??

回复#25：

你是内部人士之一么？？





27. DrSomnath999（印度 印度）

no he is from our indiam forumDF 1
回复#26：

不，他来自我们印度论坛DF 1.





28. Tshering22（印度 印度）

Well let's see which of thesejets win the government contract.
好吧，让我们看看那一架都会赢得政府订单。





29. rcrmj（中国 中国）

J-20 will win a contract fromgovernment for sure``dont know about SAC's J-2X and F-60 (depending on wetherF-60 can win the hearts of Navy people, and foreign buyers, because pupuclearly said PLAAF wont induct F-60)
and SAC's J-2X not sure as it has to competewith CAC's medium sized J-20 version``

J-20肯定会赢得政府合同，不知道沈飞的J-2X和F-60（取决于F-60是否能赢得海军和国外买家的心，因为pupu明确说过解放军空军不会装备F-60）





30. graphican（巴基斯坦澳大利亚）

Pakistan would at-least go for another single engine version . SoJ2-X is more likely winner than F-60.

回复#4：

巴基斯坦还需要至少一种单发版本。所以J2-X比起F-60更适合。







32. SinoSoldier（中国加拿大）

From what it seems, the Navyand Air Force are doing separate contracts. SAC is building the J-21 for exportand the Navy, but also seems to have received funding for a heavy fifth generationfighter. CAC on the other hand seems to have received funding firsthand for theJ-20, but is unknown for the single engine variant.
Then wouldn't it make perfectsense to induct the J-21 rather than to build a brand new fighter of the sameweight class? Huzhigeng did mention a fighter with WS-15 engines, so itdefinitely points to heavyweight class.
Currently four:
- CAC J-20
- CAC J-2X
- SAC J-21
- SAC ????
The J-2X will be competing withthe J-21 for the Navy contract while the J-20 will compete or complement theJ-XX for the Air Force contract.

回复#10：

从可能的情况来看，海军和空军分别订采购合同。沈飞为海军和出口建造J21，但是似乎也因重型五代机得到了拨款。另一方面，成飞似乎因为J20直接得到了拨款，但是单发的衍生型号不清楚。



回复#12：

那么采购J21不比重新制造一种新型的同一级别战斗机感觉更好吗？Huzhigeng没提装配WS-15发动机的战机，所以它肯定指的是重型的。



回复#13：

现有的四个：

- 成飞 J-20
- 成飞 J-2X
- 沈飞 J-21
- 沈飞 ????



回复#29：

J2X与J21竞争海军的合同，J20会与JXX竞争或者配合空军的合同。





33. tvsram1992（印度印度）

Any thing specially for Pakistan likeJf17 ? I knew Chinawill not give them sensitive tech . What about stealth version of Jf17 ?

回复#32：

有像JF17一样为巴基斯坦特别准备的吗？我知道中国不会给他们敏感技术。JF17的隐身版本怎么样？



34. shahzadasweet（挪威 加拿大）

lol my dear when china startedthis program they asked pakistan to join in it lol =))) it was pakistan whosaid no its not russia or us who dont give their best to tech to their friends

回复#33：

LOL，亲爱的，当中国启动这个项目的时候，他们就邀请巴基斯坦参加了LOL=））），是巴基斯坦拒绝了。它不是俄罗斯或者美国那种不把最好的技术给朋友。



35. krash（巴基斯坦 巴基斯坦）

You mean the way they've alwaysdone?

回复￥33：

你是指他们已经在做的吗？



36. SinoSoldier（中国 加拿大）

The Chengdu J-2Xis slated for Pakistan.

回复#33：

成都的J2X是为巴基斯坦的。



37.eachus（美国 中国）



if this is a very stealthyfighter selling at price around $40m? guess what happen to the internationalmarket? It is lower price 5G for the 3rd world countries. Russia and F35will have hard time to sell.

如果这真是一款售价4000万美元的隐形战机，猜猜国际市场会发生什么？它对第三世界国家来说有着更优惠的价格。俄罗斯和F35卖出去会变难。



38. rcrmj（中国中国）

WS-15 can be used for singleengined fighter, because its maximum trust will be 18T when its in servicewhich is enough for small and medium sized multi-rollfighter


F-60 from SAC is for navycontract (until now we still dont know whether J-21 is chinese designation forF-60, or it is the designation for SAC's J-2X).....and SAC's J-2X is not incompetition with CAC's J-20, as SAC lost the heavy stealth fighter competitiondecade ago...

PuPu said , SAC's is developing a medium weightlower-end 5th gen to compliment J-20````so there is no such competion betweenJ-20 and SAC's J-2X

回复#32：

WS15可以用于单发战斗机，因为它工作时的最大推力是18吨，对于小型和中型的足够用了。

沈飞的F60是为了海军订单（知道现在我们还不知道J21是否是F60的中国代号，或者是沈飞J3X的代号），而且沈飞的J2x不是与成飞的J20竞争的，由于沈飞十几年前输掉了了重型隐形战机的竞争

Pupu说，沈飞正在研发一款重型低端五代来配合J20，所以J20和沈飞的J2X之间不存在这样的竞争。





39. rcrmj（中国 中国）

$40 m wont be possible, J-10Bis around that price ATM```and with RMB appriciation, i wont be surprised ifthat price is well over $60m

回复#37：

4000万美元不可能，J10B现在大概是那个价格，随着人民币升值，价格升到6000万美元以上我也不会惊奇。



42 UKBengali（孟加拉国 英国）.

I think around 70-80 millionsdollars.
Remember that China will be going for the highestperformance possible in order to be able to compete with the F-35 and PAK-FA.
It will still be signifanctly cheaper than bothPAK-FA and especially F-35.

回复#39：

我认为会在7000-8000万美元。

记住一点，中国会追求最好的可能的性能，为了能够与F35和T50竞争。

它仍会比T50和F35都便宜很多。



43.rcrmh（中国 中国）

it will be significentlycheaper than F-35 for sure, but not much from PAK-FA as I believe...theinsiders never talked alot about russian planes recently, but always using USfighters as the 'benchmarks'````i guess those SAC guys knew the best of Russianplanes true capability and quality (since SAC have been reverse engineringFlankers for 2 decades) ..
so they are quite confident about competing withPAK-FA, price is definitly not the issue

回复#42：

肯定比F35要便宜很多，但是我相信比起T50不会便宜太多。内部人士最近都没有谈论俄罗斯飞机太多，但是经常用美国飞机当标杆。我才那些沈飞的家伙最清楚俄罗斯的飞机真材实料（由于沈飞装配侧卫系列20年了）

所以他们相当有自信能与T50竞争，价格竞争是当然的但不是重点。



44. UKBengali（孟加拉国 英国）

What is your opinion on thequailty of Russian Avionics?
Will the avionics on the PAK-FA be truly 5thgeneration or merely just very good 4th generation?

回复#44：

你对俄罗斯航空电子设备的质量怎么看？

T50上的航电设备是真正的五代还是基本只是很好的四代？



45. manofwar（印度印度）

This aircraft has enormouspotential, especially for export......................but for that China needs animage revamp.It's being isolated for a long time causes only a few to buyChinese military exports. That is why only a couple large countries haveexpressed interest in them..........
Opening a Chinaup bit more to the world will improve the way world percieves China, and eventhe West will stop seeing it as a threat. This will lead to profit foreverybody

这款飞机拥有很大的潜力，特别是出口……但是为了实现，中国需要改头换面。它已经被孤立很长时间了，导致只有几个国家买中国的出口武器。那也就是为什么只有几个大国对他们表现出兴趣……

让中国对世界更开放一点会让世界对中国的印象更好。甚至西方也会不再把中国视为威胁。这对每个人都有好处。



46 rcrmj（中国 中国）
as long as the west and Indianstill see us as 'commi'````no matter what we do, they will still think we arepossing threat to them
no idea``I am not experts onthat``but just based on PuPu or other insiders, the only two aspects that Chinanow has clear cut advantage over Russia is avionics and AESA radar```andstill```these are just their opinion...whether you believe it or not, itsentirely up to you````

回复#45：

只要西方和印度将我们视为共产中国，不管我们做什么，他们仍会认为我们在威胁他们。



回复#44：

不知道，我不是那方面专家，但是据pupu或者其他内部人士所说，中国对俄罗斯有明显优势的的仅有的两个方面是航电和有源相控阵雷达。这些只是他们的见解，你相不相信，全靠你自己决定。